bryris

There is a fundamental flaw in this logic of financial independence.

The economy cannot survive long term with a majority of participants in a situation where they do not have to work or produce anything to have money. Making money from money is the goal of many. Anybody with a sane mind would rather push money around and make a profit than to swing a hammer or build a vehicle or flip burgers for a paycheck. The problem is that if everyone (an extreme for illustration) were what I will call "money changers" than the economy would come to a halt in quick order. Those who are able to benefit from changing money are only able to do so as a result of those who are actually producing a value. An investor can only succeed if those with their sleeves rolled up actually DO something.

Real estate - Assuming prices are going up, one could buy low and sell high and make a good profit. Enough of these deals might lead to financial independence. The cost to this is that the real estate market will come crashing down in the end (as it had done) and the money will be siphoned right back out of thing - this is because there was nothing there to begin with. A house is a house is a house regardless of what deeds are thrown around and how many zeros are on the thing. It is a perception of value pushed by an onslaught of folks looking to make something from nothing, artificially inflating prices as demand went up. Now that the real estate market has crashed, we are back where we started to much earlier price levels. How is the society better of from this?

Look at Paris Hilton (perhaps a bad example, but it works). She is no different than a bum on the side of the street in terms of value to society as a member of that society. She can spend her inherited money - but who earned it? What value was given back to society for that money - likely from her parent's involvement with the hotel. She's a leach. Some might argue that if she is paying for a service than she is giving value. But this logic has more holes than swiss cheese. There is no value in money. Whether you hold a one $1 or a $100 dollar bill, both are just pieces of linen cloth with some fancy engraving on them. The value is ONLY what you can potentially receive in the end by exchanging that bill for something. Would anybody pay Paris Hilton with said linen for something of value, besides more green hued videos?

Those who merely turn money into more money aren't much different in the scheme of the economy. Once wealth is achieved in this capacity, the result is an individual who consumes much more than they produce, a net loss on the society.

I am not scorning on investments. Business needs money, investors are required to do this. If one can make money through wise investing, then kudos to them. But the reality of the situation remains. This is one of the fundamental reasons that our capitalist market always swings up and down, up and down, up and down, etc.

Currently, we are at the end a huge upswing in perceived values. Its got to go bust and self correct once in a while - and so we have the current economic situation.

SkyHigh

I will have to think about that one. I agree with the bulk of your premise however financial independence is a larger topic than just the values of assets. A person can change their lifestyle to reduce the need to rely on the financial system. Rural subsistence living was an early form of american independent living. It seems to me that to some degree America seems interested in returning to some of those concepts.

In regards to real estate it is not very popular right now however it will come back. In 10 years most values will be back to where they were two years ago and more so. Labor, land scarcity and material costs to home construction will insure that values continue to increase over time.

Skyhigh

Puckhead

I think this kind of fit under the Financial Independence topic but this story is what is wrong with financial independence for pilots. My friend who is a few months older than me (early twenties) just got a job at a call center for the local gas company. He will make 51,000 his first year. Now I like my job a whole lot more but I will be lucky on second year pay to get just over half his salary. He is buying a house and oh doesn’t even have a degree for this job. Ya that is what’s wrong with this job, I don’t even know how long it will take me to get that far but I guarantee it will be after fourth year pay. Anyway at least I don't have to deal with phone calls all day.....

Lab Rat

Pilots are broke for so long, in general. Broke is a condition that can be remedied - poor is an attitude that can lead one to being perpetually broke.

wrxpilot

I seriously doubt your friend is answering calls for $51k at the local utility phone center. Perhaps if he's in some kind of supervisory position, but as a customer service rep? No, I don't think so.

HercDriver130

Well currently I draw Unemployment... as I was laid off over three months ago.... and with a 70% drop in my salary we still spend less than we make. We had to adjust to do that... but thats what you do.

HectorD

hmm, let me think. How about going to a school that doesn't cost $50,000 a year?

just my .02

ERAU

SkyHigh

People in other professions often make a surprising amount of money. In my home town there was a recent job opening at the dump that paid a starting wage of 48K, plus 3 weeks of vacation, medical, dental and retirement after 20 years. The main requirements were a GED and a clean urine test.

The first step to financial independence is to pick a good profession. Build your wealth first then fly.

Skyhigh

wrxpilot

Yes, I've heard all about these "other positions" outside of flying that pay enormous salaries.

Here's the deal - this isn't my first job. I have a mechanical engineering degree and worked in that field for six years before getting into aviation. I still have a lot of friends that are in engineering.

The average starting salary for an entry level engineer is pretty close to this alleged "call center job" at the local gas company. Now, I suppose it's possible that Puckhead's young friend showed up at the call center and was offered a job that pays 185% higher than the average call center worker gets, but I doubt it.

source:
Average Level I Outbound Representative (Call Center) Salary. Level I Outbound Representative (Call

I've been on these boards a long time, and I've heard so many of these BS stories it'd make your head spin. So many pilots that have not a clue about the outside world, thinking everybody's out there making over six figures, home with their families all day, playing golf on weekends. So sorry, it ain't true. The "outside" world sucks pretty bad too.

The pay and QOL for an entry level regional airline pilot is terrible, no doubt about it. But there's a whole other world of aviation out there, and if one wants to make more money as an entry level pilot it's very possible.

Lab Rat

The majority of my friends outside of work do not fly for a living. They also make half or less of what we do too. Here is the irony: I know captains in the $200K+ range that must pick up extra flying and still barely have their heads above water. At the same time, I know people who make a fourth of that and have money to put into their savings account at the end of the month. And they say we're smart because we fly jets.