Change is in the air
10-27-2023, 05:38 PM
#81
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 23
Captain Mossman going to do a fine job. Mr. Hedin will be a fine right hand man. Brian Kennedy will take care of the finances. We sole up this leadership then form a tight cohesive unit. No talking to anyone. Our union leadership speaks for us. That is how the game is won.
10-27-2023, 05:53 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: CA 757/767
Posts: 109
[QUOTE=Nomadic;3716094]
Interesting perspective, and good guesses. I'll add some color; I am over 30 and I am management. But not in the airline industry. I am a long time business owner with employees. I am also a professional aviator. I believe that it gives me a unique perspective into these issues. I've been on both sides of these things for a long time. TBH, I don't have enough scope with the contract at Kalitta to be able to speak specifically to the issues of the contract at Kalitta. My original response was to Hogrider's contention that he would rather dig ditches than fly an airplane around the world because they won't pay what UA and AA pay their pilots. It caught my eye. Without bias, I can still confidently say that if Kalitta paid their pilots what UA and AA do, Kalitta would be bankrupt in a couple of years. The numbers just aren't there.
You make statements like, "If you have any respect for yourself." I'll mirror that back to you; if you have any respect for yourself, leave. Or, step into the gap and become part of the MEC. Be part of the change that you want to make. You have choices. There has never been a better time to be a pilot and get hired virtually anywhere. This might be news to you, but the same types of issues appear at every company. I challenge you to ride the jumpseat of all of the different airlines. Have conversations and ask questions. You'll find that every company on the planet has some "suck". Because nothing is perfect. Or... Sit there and complain about how unfair things are. Be toxic and assume that I have no respect for myself because I simply did an evaluation of the company documents made public on the internet and made a brief assessment as to why Kalitta can never pay what UA and AA do. This isn't about "respect" it's a very non-biased view of "dollars and cents". Perhaps when you figure out a way to get what you want out of this contract, you can go be part of the team that makes it happen. That's the only way that it gets done.
Do you know what this thread is supposed to be about? Just in case you don’t know, or care, I will enlighten you. It is about seeking an alternative to the present MEC. One would think an outsider would be smart enough not to weigh in on matters that do not concern them, but one would be wrong. I can’t imagine what would motivate you to take time away from your life to address an issue that has absolutely no bearing in what you do. Although, I can think of a few reasons you might be interested in doing this. Perhaps you do have a dog in this fight, maybe you are friends with management, or someone on the current MEC, or it could be you just like to stir the pot. I’m not sure if any of those hit the mark, but it really doesn’t matter.
If you have read any of my other posts on this subject, you will understand, I will not be around for a subsequent contract, no matter who end’s up being in change of our union. For my entire aviation career, I have donated my time on numerous committees, it was a very rewarding experience and I was proud to serve. However, being at the end of my career it became time to step away, and allow a fresh viewpoint to take charge. The fresh perspective I speak of also applies to the current leadership. I have spelled out why I object to this MEC, and I honestly believe a new team lead my Mike Mossman would be vastly superior.
I think it best we allow aviators to weigh in on this subject, as they will be the ones affected by their decision. Best of luck in whatever you do.
Interesting perspective, and good guesses. I'll add some color; I am over 30 and I am management. But not in the airline industry. I am a long time business owner with employees. I am also a professional aviator. I believe that it gives me a unique perspective into these issues. I've been on both sides of these things for a long time. TBH, I don't have enough scope with the contract at Kalitta to be able to speak specifically to the issues of the contract at Kalitta. My original response was to Hogrider's contention that he would rather dig ditches than fly an airplane around the world because they won't pay what UA and AA pay their pilots. It caught my eye. Without bias, I can still confidently say that if Kalitta paid their pilots what UA and AA do, Kalitta would be bankrupt in a couple of years. The numbers just aren't there.
You make statements like, "If you have any respect for yourself." I'll mirror that back to you; if you have any respect for yourself, leave. Or, step into the gap and become part of the MEC. Be part of the change that you want to make. You have choices. There has never been a better time to be a pilot and get hired virtually anywhere. This might be news to you, but the same types of issues appear at every company. I challenge you to ride the jumpseat of all of the different airlines. Have conversations and ask questions. You'll find that every company on the planet has some "suck". Because nothing is perfect. Or... Sit there and complain about how unfair things are. Be toxic and assume that I have no respect for myself because I simply did an evaluation of the company documents made public on the internet and made a brief assessment as to why Kalitta can never pay what UA and AA do. This isn't about "respect" it's a very non-biased view of "dollars and cents". Perhaps when you figure out a way to get what you want out of this contract, you can go be part of the team that makes it happen. That's the only way that it gets done.
If you have read any of my other posts on this subject, you will understand, I will not be around for a subsequent contract, no matter who end’s up being in change of our union. For my entire aviation career, I have donated my time on numerous committees, it was a very rewarding experience and I was proud to serve. However, being at the end of my career it became time to step away, and allow a fresh viewpoint to take charge. The fresh perspective I speak of also applies to the current leadership. I have spelled out why I object to this MEC, and I honestly believe a new team lead my Mike Mossman would be vastly superior.
I think it best we allow aviators to weigh in on this subject, as they will be the ones affected by their decision. Best of luck in whatever you do.
10-27-2023, 05:59 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: CA 757/767
Posts: 109
What is "Industry Standard"? How is it defined? When was it defined? What is the source document? Who decided what the standard is? Was there some Industry Standard Working Group I missed? Did we all get to vote on it? How does it get updated? Why are we all represented by disparate unions and locals if there is a single standard?
Here is what I believe, just in case I have not been clear. Mike Mossman and his team, period. The current MEC lied to us, or was simply not smart enough to know they were being duped. If that wasn't bad enough, I just heard today that the FO Rep of the current team has submitted his application for DO. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, this is a huge conflict of interest to still have him in the running as part of their team.
10-27-2023, 06:12 PM
#84
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 23
I'm not sure why you used me as a quote, but I NEVER made that statement.
Here is what I believe, just in case I have not been clear. Mike Mossman and his team, period. The current MEC lied to us, or was simply not smart enough to know they were being duped. If that wasn't bad enough, I just heard today that the FO Rep of the current team has submitted his application for DO. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, this is a huge conflict of interest to still have him in the running as part of their team.
Here is what I believe, just in case I have not been clear. Mike Mossman and his team, period. The current MEC lied to us, or was simply not smart enough to know they were being duped. If that wasn't bad enough, I just heard today that the FO Rep of the current team has submitted his application for DO. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, this is a huge conflict of interest to still have him in the running as part of their team.
When they finally lay Connie and Pete to rest I will travel there and **** on their graves after dark! The end
10-27-2023, 07:22 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 259
Nah nevermind, staying where you are and then blanking on their graves sounds smarter.
10-27-2023, 08:59 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: CA 757/767
Posts: 109
On more than one occasion I have outlined the reason this happened. There is a way forward, but it requires us to be smart enough to realize we need smart people representing us, and then smart enough to vote them in.
10-28-2023, 08:05 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 358
10-28-2023, 09:43 PM
#88
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Posts: 4
One more thing.
The union in conjunction with the company just inked a deal for ultra long flying. Evidentially a 24-hour duty isn't enough for K4, they now want to push it out even farther. Before inking this deal, did our union reach out to the pilot group to get their thoughts before making this concession. The answer is no, and it is just one more reason they need to be replaced.
The union in conjunction with the company just inked a deal for ultra long flying. Evidentially a 24-hour duty isn't enough for K4, they now want to push it out even farther. Before inking this deal, did our union reach out to the pilot group to get their thoughts before making this concession. The answer is no, and it is just one more reason they need to be replaced.
Our limiting factor is the 16 hour max flight time limitation in the CBA. This is a totally doable flight under 20 hours. Show us the money and maybe that could be a reasonable assignment.
10-28-2023, 09:51 PM
#89
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Posts: 4
YOU ARE LITTERALLY one of the idiot NC guys that pushed the TA forward that became our current CBA. You had a direct hand in making it happen, selling our pilot group out while you had two years left until retirement. You guys went from one month stating progress wasn't going anywhere to the next month approaching Christmas with a signed TA. You guys literally had more to do than this MEC with ****ing our pilot group, you guys just took advantage of their inexperience and told them to push it through so they did. Instead of the rush job you guys pulled in 2 months to get the current CBA through, if we had waited six we would have had way more bargaining power. It was a hail marry job to get it done before this current MEC.
Thank god you're gone. You were an ass to fly with.
Thank god you're gone. You were an ass to fly with.
10-28-2023, 09:59 PM
#90
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Posts: 4
[QUOTE=Lockheed;3715279]
Small but MAJOR correction as well:
On Dec 15, 2020, a Fastread came out that you were stepping down.
On Dec 23, 2020, a Fastread came out that all of a sudden we had an AIP, and that "Negotiating Committee Co-Chairs Captains ... will remain on the Negotiating Committee thru the final negotiations of the full contract language and ratification vote."
Deny it all you want, but Lockheed was just as much a part of the current mess as the rest of the team.
On Dec 15, 2020, a Fastread came out that you were stepping down.
On Dec 23, 2020, a Fastread came out that all of a sudden we had an AIP, and that "Negotiating Committee Co-Chairs Captains ... will remain on the Negotiating Committee thru the final negotiations of the full contract language and ratification vote."
Deny it all you want, but Lockheed was just as much a part of the current mess as the rest of the team.
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