Change is in the air
10-24-2023, 09:44 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: CA 757/767
Posts: 109
One more thing.
The union in conjunction with the company just inked a deal for ultra long flying. Evidentially a 24-hour duty isn't enough for K4, they now want to push it out even farther. Before inking this deal, did our union reach out to the pilot group to get their thoughts before making this concession. The answer is no, and it is just one more reason they need to be replaced.
The union in conjunction with the company just inked a deal for ultra long flying. Evidentially a 24-hour duty isn't enough for K4, they now want to push it out even farther. Before inking this deal, did our union reach out to the pilot group to get their thoughts before making this concession. The answer is no, and it is just one more reason they need to be replaced.
10-24-2023, 09:59 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Position: 777 Left window seat
Posts: 679
Fellow Kalitta Air pilots, as previously stated we are not in the middle of negotiations, we are at the start. Perhaps we can predict the future of these negotiations based on actions by our current leadership team.
As we all know, at K4 the MEC alone agreed with company to increase our retirement contribution to 12% on October 1st. Currently the Atlas Air Pilots are membership ratifying a deal for 16% retirement. Do we see a trend? As the Atlas Air Pilots pursue a path for Industry Standard, our team is focusing on a terrible “Best in Class” strategy….
The time is now to reject this plan for less and demand Industry Standard as our goal.
As we all know, at K4 the MEC alone agreed with company to increase our retirement contribution to 12% on October 1st. Currently the Atlas Air Pilots are membership ratifying a deal for 16% retirement. Do we see a trend? As the Atlas Air Pilots pursue a path for Industry Standard, our team is focusing on a terrible “Best in Class” strategy….
The time is now to reject this plan for less and demand Industry Standard as our goal.
10-24-2023, 10:13 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 259
Fellow Kalitta Air pilots, as previously stated we are not in the middle of negotiations, we are at the start. Perhaps we can predict the future of these negotiations based on actions by our current leadership team.
As we all know, at K4 the MEC alone agreed with company to increase our retirement contribution to 12% on October 1st. Currently the Atlas Air Pilots are membership ratifying a deal for 16% retirement. Do we see a trend? As the Atlas Air Pilots pursue a path for Industry Standard, our team is focusing on a terrible “Best in Class” strategy….
The time is now to reject this plan for less and demand Industry Standard as our goal.
As we all know, at K4 the MEC alone agreed with company to increase our retirement contribution to 12% on October 1st. Currently the Atlas Air Pilots are membership ratifying a deal for 16% retirement. Do we see a trend? As the Atlas Air Pilots pursue a path for Industry Standard, our team is focusing on a terrible “Best in Class” strategy….
The time is now to reject this plan for less and demand Industry Standard as our goal.
10-24-2023, 05:21 PM
#55
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 23
[QUOTE=Nomadic;3714439][QUOTE=hogrider;3713488]
It's obvious that you have no understanding how business works. I'm not trying to insult you, but you're taking something personally that really isn't. American Airlines and United Airlines are both Fortune 50 companies worth more than 25 Billion dollars. Each. They generate over 6 billion dollars in revenue a year. They each have around 100,000 employees.
Kalitta is a family owned business and has a valuation of around 700 million dollars with an annual revenue generation of around 400 million. Kalitta has around 3,000 employees. Simply, if Kalitta paid pilots what AA and UA paid their pilots, Kalitta would be bankrupt, you'd be out of a job, and you would be far more angry about that than not being paid what the pilots at AA and UA make. Kalitta will NEVER be able to pay you what AA and UA pay their pilots. They can't. Ever. Unless, of course, they go public, become an S&P 500 company, and they grow 33 X's their current size. In both employees and revenue. People who don't understand these things are the ones in cockpits constantly griping about what they get paid to their own, and other crew members' detriment.
If you want to get paid what the pilots and UA and AA make, you only have 3 options. That's it. It's not personal. It's dollars and cents. All of this information is available on the internet. It might be a little skewed, say they generate 440 million vs 400, but they're not 33 X skewed.
Lastly, I am HIGHLY suspicious that you'd actually put your money where your mouth is on the digging ditches part. There's a mighty high horse those ditch diggers would gladly chop out from under you if you said that you'd rather do that than fly a 747 or 777 around the world. But if that's the case, die on the hill. It's your time to shine.
Lol. You’re trying to solve management’s problems. Not the pilots. Do you think $256/hr for a 5 year B747 pilot is a fair wage? Do you honestly think they can’t pay UA 777 pilot wages to a K4 747 pilot flying 225,000 pounds of Chinesium crap to Anchorage? They most certainly can and still be profitable. This battle is about breaking the will of the pilots and making you think your services are worth less than the going rate. Obviously they won that battle with you a very long time ago.
It's obvious that you have no understanding how business works. I'm not trying to insult you, but you're taking something personally that really isn't. American Airlines and United Airlines are both Fortune 50 companies worth more than 25 Billion dollars. Each. They generate over 6 billion dollars in revenue a year. They each have around 100,000 employees.
Kalitta is a family owned business and has a valuation of around 700 million dollars with an annual revenue generation of around 400 million. Kalitta has around 3,000 employees. Simply, if Kalitta paid pilots what AA and UA paid their pilots, Kalitta would be bankrupt, you'd be out of a job, and you would be far more angry about that than not being paid what the pilots at AA and UA make. Kalitta will NEVER be able to pay you what AA and UA pay their pilots. They can't. Ever. Unless, of course, they go public, become an S&P 500 company, and they grow 33 X's their current size. In both employees and revenue. People who don't understand these things are the ones in cockpits constantly griping about what they get paid to their own, and other crew members' detriment.
If you want to get paid what the pilots and UA and AA make, you only have 3 options. That's it. It's not personal. It's dollars and cents. All of this information is available on the internet. It might be a little skewed, say they generate 440 million vs 400, but they're not 33 X skewed.
Lastly, I am HIGHLY suspicious that you'd actually put your money where your mouth is on the digging ditches part. There's a mighty high horse those ditch diggers would gladly chop out from under you if you said that you'd rather do that than fly a 747 or 777 around the world. But if that's the case, die on the hill. It's your time to shine.
Lol. You’re trying to solve management’s problems. Not the pilots. Do you think $256/hr for a 5 year B747 pilot is a fair wage? Do you honestly think they can’t pay UA 777 pilot wages to a K4 747 pilot flying 225,000 pounds of Chinesium crap to Anchorage? They most certainly can and still be profitable. This battle is about breaking the will of the pilots and making you think your services are worth less than the going rate. Obviously they won that battle with you a very long time ago.
10-24-2023, 06:50 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 259
Lol. You’re trying to solve management’s problems. Not the pilots. Do you think $256/hr for a 5 year B747 pilot is a fair wage? Do you honestly think they can’t pay UA 777 pilot wages to a K4 747 pilot flying 225,000 pounds of Chinesium crap to Anchorage? They most certainly can and still be profitable. This battle is about breaking the will of the pilots and making you think your services are worth less than the going rate. Obviously they won that battle with you a very long time ago.
10-25-2023, 04:02 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 358
One more thing.
The union in conjunction with the company just inked a deal for ultra long flying. Evidentially a 24-hour duty isn't enough for K4, they now want to push it out even farther. Before inking this deal, did our union reach out to the pilot group to get their thoughts before making this concession. The answer is no, and it is just one more reason they need to be replaced.
The union in conjunction with the company just inked a deal for ultra long flying. Evidentially a 24-hour duty isn't enough for K4, they now want to push it out even farther. Before inking this deal, did our union reach out to the pilot group to get their thoughts before making this concession. The answer is no, and it is just one more reason they need to be replaced.
Last edited by WhaleWrangler; 10-25-2023 at 04:25 AM.
10-25-2023, 04:24 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 358
[QUOTE=ex402dvr;3713496]
I'm amazed that across many platforms everyone is failing to mention the one BIG (in more ways than one) motivator for the current CBA, whom had a great deal of experience, and stood there and flat out said you have to vote this in as it it the best we can do and is a final offer or we will be in negotiations for who knows how long, yet apparently it is all the current MEC chairs fault!! One of the negotiators who had less than a year left also was pushing it as his last hoorah. The influx of numerous regional pilots from defunct airlines saw the money that the company posted without union knowledge / agreement to personal company emails suddenly got a woody, and most have left in the meantime. In 2.5 years since the contract passed by 17 votes I've only found 3 that voted yes, the others are probably understandably ashamed of their choice.
Actually, it does matter who represents us, we need a strong leader and solid MEC. The current book are the ones to bring this abomination to fruition. Of course, the pilots were the ones to vote it in, but think back to how this happened. This started at the top with a leader in way over his head, and the people that had experience surrounding him, should have been the ones to educate and enlighten him, not move it forward.
10-25-2023, 06:09 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 259
[QUOTE=WhaleWrangler;3715195]
I'm amazed that across many platforms everyone is failing to mention the one BIG (in more ways than one) motivator for the current CBA, whom had a great deal of experience, and stood there and flat out said you have to vote this in as it it the best we can do and is a final offer or we will be in negotiations for who knows how long, yet apparently it is all the current MEC chairs fault!! One of the negotiators who had less than a year left also was pushing it as his last hoorah. The influx of numerous regional pilots from defunct airlines saw the money that the company posted without union knowledge / agreement to personal company emails suddenly got a woody, and most have left in the meantime. In 2.5 years since the contract passed by 17 votes I've only found 3 that voted yes, the others are probably understandably ashamed of their choice.
Y'all are also leaving out another big factor, Covid, and the fact that "No one will be hiring for the next 5 years! We have to take this deal!" That was a huge factor.
I'm amazed that across many platforms everyone is failing to mention the one BIG (in more ways than one) motivator for the current CBA, whom had a great deal of experience, and stood there and flat out said you have to vote this in as it it the best we can do and is a final offer or we will be in negotiations for who knows how long, yet apparently it is all the current MEC chairs fault!! One of the negotiators who had less than a year left also was pushing it as his last hoorah. The influx of numerous regional pilots from defunct airlines saw the money that the company posted without union knowledge / agreement to personal company emails suddenly got a woody, and most have left in the meantime. In 2.5 years since the contract passed by 17 votes I've only found 3 that voted yes, the others are probably understandably ashamed of their choice.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
