Change is in the air
03-08-2024, 07:14 AM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 110
It probably was NOT a good idea putting TA'd sections on social media. However, The guys on the negotiating commitee need to start letting everyone know what they have TA'd and what has been proposed. This secret negotiating is NOT normal. We spend a lot of our pay on dues and we deserve this. I have never heard of a group allowing this. Does anyone believe that the Fed Ex pilots, United pilots, Delta pilots would stand for this? Why should we? When Kalitta pilots hear that in 6 or 7 months of negotiating, The results are nothing other then garbage sections agreed upon, let alone proposed. Why shouldn't we question a process that is like no other? The vast example is of other carriers and unions that negotiate in the sunlight! (I realize that specifics cannot be published, But general sections are standard practice.) It makes it more believable when we hear that items like 90 day recurrency are now jepordy events and draconian seat locks are agreed upon for what reason? Our unions success at the bagaining table is our success. I want our guys to succeed! However, The recent sunlight that was shed on our current situation does cast some shadows of concern regarding whether or not we are moving in the right direction.
03-08-2024, 07:24 PM
#183
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2024
Position: 747/01L
Posts: 8
Interest Bargaining is the term used for keeping things close to vest until all sections are closed. Although the membership may not like it, it can be advantageous to both sides as long as they are both negotiating in good faith. The MEC must stay the course as outlined by the membership and damn well better have an explanation for TA'ing a section that is contrary to the best interest of the group.
$136,500 negotiating committee
$43,125 MEC chairman
$54,600 addl MEC members
Equals $234,225.00 per month (without Hotel, rental cars, meals, cigars) for 7 months for a rough estimate of $1,635,575.00 for 7 sections with pronouns changed, a more company friendly training section and the ability for the union to put cronys on full time flight pay loss.
"Also take in to consideration"
Who is our Attorney guiding us through all of this? He is just off probation and his only work prior to this was working at UPS on the Uniform committee. (Not the pilots. The truck drivers.)
This expense is just ludicris. Think about trimming a few of these guys out and what you could afford every month. A secratary, A real contract labor law attorney thats not cutting his teeth, an office.
03-09-2024, 04:09 AM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 110
"Consider this" Why would we spend 7 months negotiating sections that only require title and pronoun sections? Was it not told to us that the company wanted to stop attrition and right the ship and stop the bleeding? Yet, not ONE section has been TA'd from the Kalitta pilots survey, Not ONE!! I'll tell you what has been TA'd. The ability for the MEC to appoint certain union positions for FULL flight pay loss and also to pay those positions at whatever monthly credit they see fit. Realize that union leave is charged at an additional 25% for flight pay loss. We pay our 4 negotiation guys 91 credit hrs per month. Lets say 300x91= $27,300 per month. multiply that by 1.25 which comes to $34,125. Multiply that by 4 for the 4 negotiating committee guys. That comes to $136,500 for just the flight pay loss. Now add breakfast, lunch, dinner (Twisted Rooster or the company attorney's favorite the Chop House) and then add hotel expenses. "Thats not all" Lets bring in the MEC" Captains rep flight loss pay at 115 hrs of pay loss at $300.00 = $34,500.00 x the companys cut at 25% comes to $43,125.00 ($414,000 per year). 2 additional MEC members at 91 hrs pay loss $27,300 each= $54,600 x company cut at 25%=$68,200.
$136,500 negotiating committee
$43,125 MEC chairman
$54,600 addl MEC members
Equals $234,225.00 per month (without Hotel, rental cars, meals, cigars) for 7 months for a rough estimate of $1,635,575.00 for 7 sections with pronouns changed, a more company friendly training section and the ability for the union to put cronys on full time flight pay loss.
"Also take in to consideration"
Who is our Attorney guiding us through all of this? He is just off probation and his only work prior to this was working at UPS on the Uniform committee. (Not the pilots. The truck drivers.)
This expense is just ludicris. Think about trimming a few of these guys out and what you could afford every month. A secratary, A real contract labor law attorney thats not cutting his teeth, an office.
$136,500 negotiating committee
$43,125 MEC chairman
$54,600 addl MEC members
Equals $234,225.00 per month (without Hotel, rental cars, meals, cigars) for 7 months for a rough estimate of $1,635,575.00 for 7 sections with pronouns changed, a more company friendly training section and the ability for the union to put cronys on full time flight pay loss.
"Also take in to consideration"
Who is our Attorney guiding us through all of this? He is just off probation and his only work prior to this was working at UPS on the Uniform committee. (Not the pilots. The truck drivers.)
This expense is just ludicris. Think about trimming a few of these guys out and what you could afford every month. A secratary, A real contract labor law attorney thats not cutting his teeth, an office.
03-09-2024, 06:45 AM
#185
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: B747-400 FO
Posts: 22
"Consider this" Why would we spend 7 months negotiating sections that only require title and pronoun sections? Was it not told to us that the company wanted to stop attrition and right the ship and stop the bleeding? Yet, not ONE section has been TA'd from the Kalitta pilots survey, Not ONE!! I'll tell you what has been TA'd. The ability for the MEC to appoint certain union positions for FULL flight pay loss and also to pay those positions at whatever monthly credit they see fit. Realize that union leave is charged at an additional 25% for flight pay loss. We pay our 4 negotiation guys 91 credit hrs per month. Lets say 300x91= $27,300 per month. multiply that by 1.25 which comes to $34,125. Multiply that by 4 for the 4 negotiating committee guys. That comes to $136,500 for just the flight pay loss. Now add breakfast, lunch, dinner (Twisted Rooster or the company attorney's favorite the Chop House) and then add hotel expenses. "Thats not all" Lets bring in the MEC" Captains rep flight loss pay at 115 hrs of pay loss at $300.00 = $34,500.00 x the companys cut at 25% comes to $43,125.00 ($414,000 per year). 2 additional MEC members at 91 hrs pay loss $27,300 each= $54,600 x company cut at 25%=$68,200.
$136,500 negotiating committee
$43,125 MEC chairman
$54,600 addl MEC members
Equals $234,225.00 per month (without Hotel, rental cars, meals, cigars) for 7 months for a rough estimate of $1,635,575.00 for 7 sections with pronouns changed, a more company friendly training section and the ability for the union to put cronys on full time flight pay loss.
"Also take in to consideration"
Who is our Attorney guiding us through all of this? He is just off probation and his only work prior to this was working at UPS on the Uniform committee. (Not the pilots. The truck drivers.)
This expense is just ludicris. Think about trimming a few of these guys out and what you could afford every month. A secratary, A real contract labor law attorney thats not cutting his teeth, an office.
$136,500 negotiating committee
$43,125 MEC chairman
$54,600 addl MEC members
Equals $234,225.00 per month (without Hotel, rental cars, meals, cigars) for 7 months for a rough estimate of $1,635,575.00 for 7 sections with pronouns changed, a more company friendly training section and the ability for the union to put cronys on full time flight pay loss.
"Also take in to consideration"
Who is our Attorney guiding us through all of this? He is just off probation and his only work prior to this was working at UPS on the Uniform committee. (Not the pilots. The truck drivers.)
This expense is just ludicris. Think about trimming a few of these guys out and what you could afford every month. A secratary, A real contract labor law attorney thats not cutting his teeth, an office.
03-09-2024, 08:33 AM
#186
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2024
Position: 747/01L
Posts: 8
I just wonder how it is you can be so sure that nothing has been negotiated. If you're not in the room and there is an NDA on the process then I'm curious how we can trust that you're actually a credible source. I didn't get the chance to see the photos posted on Facebook but I heard where it came from and personally it sounds to me like this person has a grudge against JK and will do just about anything to disparage him including hurting the current negotiations. I guess I just don't understand the motivations of those who want to hurt our union leadership in the middle of negotiations. This seems more suspect to me than the supposed lack of progress in the negotiations. Everything we have heard from the union is that the negotiations are going well and that the company is motivated to make the changes needed to keep pilots. I'm happy to give them a chance and if they disappoint then I think we should seriously consider a recall.
03-12-2024, 04:29 AM
#187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 358
Funny how people are saying they took 7 months to negotiate pronoun changes. Probably took, oh maybe 2 minutes.
Company: "We need to make the contract less gender specific per HR"
Union: "OK that's fair"
Someone opens the contract in PDF or word and hits 'FIND', enters 'his' hits 'REPLACE', enters 'thier", hits enter and bingo it's done. Yeah that took 7 months!
Company: "We need to make the contract less gender specific per HR"
Union: "OK that's fair"
Someone opens the contract in PDF or word and hits 'FIND', enters 'his' hits 'REPLACE', enters 'thier", hits enter and bingo it's done. Yeah that took 7 months!
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