Kipp

Indeed. The proper time for release is when it is released for a vote. Then, all we have to do is vote NO. Takes a few seconds to reject garbage.

What isn't needed: whining on Facebook

SinkRatePullUp

My guess is we will get a good contract (not perfect), but we will have the same people continuing to ***** as if they were personally plucked from their happy place and forced to work here. If they release a piece of crap then please vote no and apply elsewhere as many of us will be doing the same thing. This place isn't perfect but it's the best job I've had in this industry and I'm generally happy with my time off and the time I spend at work. My guess is that the people *****ing constantly on here and in the cockpit have some personal problems thats causing their unhappiness. If your happiness is contingent on your job then i suspect you will be unhappy with just about any employer. Having lots of friends who actually work for a living it has become quite clear that pilots are some of the most entitled crybabies to ever grace an employer with their presence. Do we deserve a good contract with more pay and better work rules? Yes. Is that going to make the *****ing go away? No.

Cleared4appch

This is a very true statement!! Pilots really are some of the biggest complainers out there. I came from non-aviation jobs before starting my career, and it’s amazing of the difference. Many of us don’t have the right perspective. Even pilots at major airline jobs complain too much.

C17B74

We pilots can whine louder and longer than any engine it seems. Agree that many of us have never looked back after leaving other career fields working much longer hours, micro managed by the worst, in countries most here would never step off the jet at and slogging much harder for far less pay and benefits. Even then, no one forced me to volunteer it's jut a means to an end. Those times keep me well grounded and appreciative of our current lifestyle brought by those ahead of my time so thank you to them (and those currently pushing positive gains as honest delegate's) for pressing forward this industry of pitfalls, economic black holes and quicksand that many of us have never experienced.

*Totally on board for "better" in all areas, but take a minute and listen to some folks just as a reference point/reminder from the early 2000s, lost decade and well before. It's quite a roller coaster ride of dream smashing. We live in the moment for the most part like that lawyer commercial - "I want my $ and I want it now!" Or whatever the special gripe of the day being served is.

smovemovegenius

You know, if I was going to ****post on an "anonymous" form because I wasn't mature enough to handle loosing an MEC election, AND then challenged it, AND then LOST, I probably wouldn't have entered my birthdate correctly. It's ironic it matches the birthdate of a page three seniority list individual who also happens to be the one who on posted these docs on Facebook. Pathfinder...or shall I say MM...you're an absolute dumbass.

MastrsOfCaterin

It probably was NOT a good idea putting TA'd sections on social media. However, The guys on the negotiating commitee need to start letting everyone know what they have TA'd and what has been proposed. This secret negotiating is NOT normal. We spend a lot of our pay on dues and we deserve this. I have never heard of a group allowing this. Does anyone believe that the Fed Ex pilots, United pilots, Delta pilots would stand for this? Why should we? When Kalitta pilots hear that in 6 or 7 months of negotiating, The results are nothing other then garbage sections agreed upon, let alone proposed. Why shouldn't we question a process that is like no other? The vast example is of other carriers and unions that negotiate in the sunlight! (I realize that specifics cannot be published, But general sections are standard practice.) It makes it more believable when we hear that items like 90 day recurrency are now jepordy events and draconian seat locks are agreed upon for what reason? Our unions success at the bagaining table is our success. I want our guys to succeed! However, The recent sunlight that was shed on our current situation does cast some shadows of concern regarding whether or not we are moving in the right direction.

goinaround

The worst part will be when it goes out as a TA and it passes.... because...."Are you going to say NO to MORE MONEY?!?!?"

jhugz

With the amount of copium in this thread, the last TA result doesn't really surprise me. "Compared to my scumbag 135 operator, this isn't too bad...compared to when I was driving a truck/flipping burgers, this isn't too bad. Back when I was flying a 1900 turboprop for 18k a year sharing a crashpad room with 8 other dudes, this isn't too bad." Have some self respect for yourself and the career. You're operating a 747 all around the world and the market is completely different then when you originally got hired at K4...strive for something better this time around then just the same crappy work rules and a modest pay increase. I tried to fight the good fight when I was there, but when I see posts like these it just drives me insane and completely validates my decision for leaving. Change at K4 is next to impossible due to some in the pilot group that just have stockholm syndrome.

Boeingthere

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS 100%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was told shortly after coming here that there were a lot of DUI guys, that can't leave. I've met several that are a pallet or two short of a full load and can't leave. And I've met a few that are self incarcerated by their golden handcuffs and can't leave. I've never heard more pilots make more excuses for the company's behavior and treating them like a chained up mut in the front yard. Stockholm Syndrome is real here at K4.
If this negotiating team doesn't bring it and bring it big they're character and reputations will be way worse than MM's is now. Hell we'll have forgotten all about his Infractions and behavior. And all of our focus will be on them.

sky jet

Do you think K4 is the only airline where there are people with a past? I know some real beauties at the majors. Some of those special children used to be at Kalitta before they took their acts to the "bigs". If you had access to managment or HR records at the big 5 you would be horrified at the stuff that supposedly professional aviators do every day. The 2% live at every company. When you have 15,000 pilots that is a lot of screwing up happening daily.

The contract will stand on it own merits when the time comes. If it does not meet your minimum requirements vote NO. If it then passes you can vote with your feet. Every one of us will have that same opportunity. Until then ignore the rumors. They are only that until we see the final document.