newb2

I have to question the sanity of anyone voting yes on this contract. There are too many loopholes to count, and as someone that still has a good number of years in this profession, it just doesn’t make sense. I keep hearing we don’t have any leverage but I’m not so sure I agree with this. I was reading an article today that Spirit is going to be ramping up their hiring to hedge against a potential shortage when the recovery starts. If you combine this with the number of pilots that accepted early retirement, there will be a huge shortage in the next few years. Anyone that has more than ten years left in this industry needs to realize they are in the driver’s seat.

Lockheed

you're not looking at that provision the right way i my opinion
it STOPS trip stealing - let me ask you this
what prevents what you describe happening right now?
all that language does is prevent YOUR trip being taken from you at the last minute
I honestly dont see how anyone can oppose it

Lockheed

So lets say that the industry plays out just as you describe
would it not be better to take the incremental gains now and use that leverage that we will have, if your right, to build and even better CBA in 3 short years when we are back in negotiations?

oh and what happens if your crystal ball is wrong - and all that money we printing helps cause an over due recession?

Cujo665

Thats the key. It’s only a three year CBA. People predicting a 5+ year recovery are nuts. We’ll be right back into a serious shortage within about 2 years.... right about the time you’d start openers. Do you want to start negotiation in 2 years from the current CBA, or with one that is already slightly better.

Then, if the company goes hardball in two years, which CBA would you rather be under. Time value of money comes into play over the full three years, or several more years afterwards in prolonged section six.

I’m not at K4, but I have been involved in many contract negotiations, both in and out of bankruptcy. If this is only a 3 year CBA and it has gains, it’s a no brainer to grab it. 2.5 years later the shortage will be on your side again.

Lockheed

I agree completely with your points ,but one minor thing - it is a 4 year deal but negotiations start 6 months early so if ratified new talks would start in just over 3 years

goinaround

This isn’t a 3 year CBA. It’s 4. Some people want us to believe that the company will for some mysterious reason want to always open a year early going forward. In the same breath, we need to take this deal now because last time they drug it out 6 years. I can’t keep up with all the logic.

ex402dvr

We all have reasons for the way we vote, unlike you I don’t have a lot of years left and I will vote the way I do because of how I view things. Those that vote yes have a good reason to do so, and those that vote no have their reasons for doing so. Saying you question the sanity of how someone votes, may be viewed as a little harsh and uninformed.



Just my two cents worth.

Frank717

Of course, everyone can vote how they feel. I’m disappointed in the fact that the examples skew some lines. For example, we don’t know (or the company) how much insurance cost will be in 2022. We both can assume they’ll increase, but at what rate?

I just want voters to know that LCCs have a better contract and pay. We’re flying larger metal, longer legs, a lot more nights and time away, for less pay that them. It just doesn’t seem right. 6 months ago we were all excited about the “improvements”. Lots of crews believed the company would share their success with us... since we helped get them their. Instead, they offered pittance, and are trying to sell it like it’s MAJOR win.
My advice, if you have 2, 20 or30 years left, think about what is available to them, and what they offered us. We have worked hard and just want fair benefits like LCCs.

Reserve

Like I said. I’m sure it is an unintended consequence. I don’t believe you are looking at it right either. It is quite clear the example I laid out is protected. Have you noticed the guys doing this live with their phones in their hand 24/7? A regular guy will rarely get acknowledged before it is stolen. The thieves are renewing Christmas card lists, and updating PayPal accounts in anticipation.
And you are correct. Nothing prevents this from happening right now. That’s why it’s best to get tight language in there now. This concept is not tight.

gollum

Hopefully, the Addition of the below paragraph to open time subsection will help with it.

OPEN TIME

2.e. The Scheduling Committee Chairman will be provided access to the necessary data in order to verify the proper application of this subsection.