Kalitta Air (K4) Information
11-14-2022, 04:22 AM
#4251
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Doing Just Fine
Posts: 358
I have said this for years, plan on 64 hours and your hourly rate. Anything above that and Per Diem is gravy.
I get tired of hearing some whine that they need 80+ hours a month because they have their beach house or daughters BMW to pay for. If you can't make 64 hours work then look elsewhere. This is even more important in times of a declining economy or any other event that will cause a slow down.
I get tired of hearing some whine that they need 80+ hours a month because they have their beach house or daughters BMW to pay for. If you can't make 64 hours work then look elsewhere. This is even more important in times of a declining economy or any other event that will cause a slow down.
11-14-2022, 08:53 AM
#4252
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 847
I have said this for years, plan on 64 hours and your hourly rate. Anything above that and Per Diem is gravy.
I get tired of hearing some whine that they need 80+ hours a month because they have their beach house or daughters BMW to pay for. If you can't make 64 hours work then look elsewhere. This is even more important in times of a declining economy or any other event that will cause a slow down.
I get tired of hearing some whine that they need 80+ hours a month because they have their beach house or daughters BMW to pay for. If you can't make 64 hours work then look elsewhere. This is even more important in times of a declining economy or any other event that will cause a slow down.
11-14-2022, 03:24 PM
#4254
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Position: 777 left seat windowlicker
Posts: 23
From a “new hire” who has only been here at K4 for about three years and plans on sticking around, this is all still pretty much spot on.
This question hasn’t been answered in a while, it’s cloudy here and I have some time today so I will attempt to answer you questions. I am retired so I can only speak of the history of such questions.
At K4 you can NEVER plan on say, 100 hours a month even though you flew that credit the past 4 months. Without going into a lot of details, suffice it to say, you go to work on day 1 and you go home on the last day.
Right now is the tail end of a Very Bullish cycle in air freight. That is coming to an end, and pilots will have to “work” the system to get anywhere close to 100 hours of credit. My prediction is that K4 will be returning towards the model of the past as things slow down. Several 747 BCF’s will be retired or mothballed for future deployment.
The old model at K4 was that everyone was pretty much on reserve after day 1 that month. There is a good reason for that. Unlike most airlines, Kalitta doesn’t have spare aircraft laying around. What they have is spare hours on aircraft that are operating. The DHL, Turkish, or whomever, standard freight runs are done at a price that allows K4 to pay the bills. Now say the State department calls and says, “we have 24 Americans infected with Ebola that we need transported in the next 72 hours.” Kalitta proposed an obscene hourly rate for this and once accepted, the wheels start to turn. They have multiple aircraft that they have sitting somewhere for 12-14 hours. They tighten up the schedule and free up 2 BCF’s for a 48 hour period. They do the same with flight crews. You thought you were going to be sitting in Bahrain for 2.5 days? Now you are going somewhere else. That is why most pilots learn that they own you from day 1 at work until you go home. If you cannot handle having your schedule nebulous then stay away. I suspect that this may be a source of angst for pilots that have been hired since 2020 as things slow down.
Upgrades? I don’t really see how you could realistically plan less that 6-7 years. People are leaving for better jobs for sure, but that is the key that needs to have your attention. They are leaving for BETTER jobs. freight is a leading economic indicator for the passenger airlines. If we enter a recession for an extended time the pilot shortage will wane for a bit and people will stay at K4. If the business world wide continues to slow and stays slow K4 will shrink the 747 fleet as the 777 fleet increases resulting in net 0 upgrades.
Bottom line. Can you handle being away from home for 16-17 days a month? Can you handle not having a set schedule? Can you get along with other pilots who may have a bit of a quirky personality out of the aircraft? Can you handle the boredom of extended flights?
If so, signup and enjoy life until the next uptick in the industry. When that happens you can reevaluate and decide to stay or move on. You will be much more marketable coming from K4 than. a commuter operation. If you can deal with the issues above it will the best life you can imagine.
I am sure others will disagree with my assessment but it does get the conversation started.
At K4 you can NEVER plan on say, 100 hours a month even though you flew that credit the past 4 months. Without going into a lot of details, suffice it to say, you go to work on day 1 and you go home on the last day.
Right now is the tail end of a Very Bullish cycle in air freight. That is coming to an end, and pilots will have to “work” the system to get anywhere close to 100 hours of credit. My prediction is that K4 will be returning towards the model of the past as things slow down. Several 747 BCF’s will be retired or mothballed for future deployment.
The old model at K4 was that everyone was pretty much on reserve after day 1 that month. There is a good reason for that. Unlike most airlines, Kalitta doesn’t have spare aircraft laying around. What they have is spare hours on aircraft that are operating. The DHL, Turkish, or whomever, standard freight runs are done at a price that allows K4 to pay the bills. Now say the State department calls and says, “we have 24 Americans infected with Ebola that we need transported in the next 72 hours.” Kalitta proposed an obscene hourly rate for this and once accepted, the wheels start to turn. They have multiple aircraft that they have sitting somewhere for 12-14 hours. They tighten up the schedule and free up 2 BCF’s for a 48 hour period. They do the same with flight crews. You thought you were going to be sitting in Bahrain for 2.5 days? Now you are going somewhere else. That is why most pilots learn that they own you from day 1 at work until you go home. If you cannot handle having your schedule nebulous then stay away. I suspect that this may be a source of angst for pilots that have been hired since 2020 as things slow down.
Upgrades? I don’t really see how you could realistically plan less that 6-7 years. People are leaving for better jobs for sure, but that is the key that needs to have your attention. They are leaving for BETTER jobs. freight is a leading economic indicator for the passenger airlines. If we enter a recession for an extended time the pilot shortage will wane for a bit and people will stay at K4. If the business world wide continues to slow and stays slow K4 will shrink the 747 fleet as the 777 fleet increases resulting in net 0 upgrades.
Bottom line. Can you handle being away from home for 16-17 days a month? Can you handle not having a set schedule? Can you get along with other pilots who may have a bit of a quirky personality out of the aircraft? Can you handle the boredom of extended flights?
If so, signup and enjoy life until the next uptick in the industry. When that happens you can reevaluate and decide to stay or move on. You will be much more marketable coming from K4 than. a commuter operation. If you can deal with the issues above it will the best life you can imagine.
I am sure others will disagree with my assessment but it does get the conversation started.
11-16-2022, 04:27 PM
#4257
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Position: CA
Posts: 37
Ask any pilot at Kalitta how the cadre of new 777 LCA faired back in 2021 when time was up to go back to the line as an FO. The company threatened ALPA to make a few of them management pilots and even made a few of them sim instructors so that they could keep their Captain pay and still use them to train new pilots. They find ways around the contract when it fits fits their needs.
11-17-2022, 04:34 AM
#4258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 586
Ask any pilot at Kalitta how the cadre of new 777 LCA faired back in 2021 when time was up to go back to the line as an FO. The company threatened ALPA to make a few of them management pilots and even made a few of them sim instructors so that they could keep their Captain pay and still use them to train new pilots. They find ways around the contract when it fits fits their needs.
CBA Language Matters
12-12-2022, 02:14 PM
#4259
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 84
Life on the 777
I just picked up my 777 new hire class date on 31 January. Are there any 777 pilots willing to chime in on the current day and life of a rotation? My guess is it’s probably somewhat different than the guys on the 747. What do the schedules look like? Are they 16 or 14 day lines? What’s the average monthly credit for pay? Is the schedule more consistent or loose and flexible like the 747? How long (or what’s the longest) will a crew layover in a hotel waiting for the next tail to rotate through? How often will you airline around the world to get in front of your jet?
12-12-2022, 06:41 PM
#4260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 847
I just picked up my 777 new hire class date on 31 January. Are there any 777 pilots willing to chime in on the current day and life of a rotation? My guess is it’s probably somewhat different than the guys on the 747. What do the schedules look like? Are they 16 or 14 day lines? What’s the average monthly credit for pay? Is the schedule more consistent or loose and flexible like the 747? How long (or what’s the longest) will a crew layover in a hotel waiting for the next tail to rotate through? How often will you airline around the world to get in front of your jet?
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