goinaround

Also....a lot of folks seem to be under the impression that we make so much more than Spirit or SWA etc.... We do not. Our hourly rates are quite a bit higher....but they have this thing called "soft time" that increases their pay significantly. We may happen to be making a little more right now (maybe)....because we're all flying our tails off....but it'll swing the other way some day and it'll be 69 hour months at some point. I personally wouldn't do it...but if you lived in base for an LCC (and are an FO here) it'd probably be a smart move if you can suck up the financial pain for a few years to have the better QOL, receive the maximum IRS limit into your 401K, and stack the bank. Some people around here think we're top of the heap save for Purple and Brown. Nope.

mcfadden

Any talk of management and union negotiating an LOA or contract amendment to boost pay, QOL, etc to help with attrition?

thepotato232

ATI departure was apparently a newhire who lives in base, whose specific circumstances led them to believe ATI would provide better quality of life. It wouldn't be my choice either, but there are plenty of people in that pile of >4000 apps we have who aren't thrilled about what this place has on offer. And that's saying nothing of those who are actively leaving after years of employment, even to places not all of us would consider. This schedule and lifestyle are a lot to ask of an employee group, and not everyone thinks the current contract is an attractive deal in the current environment.

A very recent conference call with our D.O. made it clear that the management feels perfectly comfortable with the current hiring and attrition picture. I've never had serious cause to doubt the man in my time here, so I'm willing to believe that is the company's last word on the matter for now.

goinaround

....and.....and....... This thread has taken a negative turn. For the outsiders looking in: If what K4 has to offer happens to fit your personal situation perfectly...it really is a great place to work. Coming to work here was absolutely the right decision for me and I'm not leaving. But if you're doing it as a consolation prize to working for your preferred passenger airline....you'll probably be looking to move on sooner or later.

goinaround

That specific question was answered as a hard "no" from the DO himself just a couple days ago.

Lockheed

Thanks for the kind words
the comment I made is what I believe is K4's management perspective, not the MEC in any way

the way they see it is that the company will never be able to compete with the big 5 on any level whether it's compensation, benefits or work rules,, so they are not surprised by guys leaving for them

the question is will youngish Captains here leave for Spirit, Frontier, Jet Blue, Alaska, Hawaiian

if not for covid we may have found out the answer to that question in the summer and fall of 2020, if that happened it would truly rattle their cages

so you are correct they are not prepared, when we brought up the possibilities of what might and has happened..it fell on deaf ears

Lockheed

your statement about how much Spirit and others make is 1000% accurate...and they have excellent benefits as well...far better than us or any other acmi

I've been screaming that from the treetops since their latest CBA..which is outstanding

thepotato232

Thank you for following up Lockheed. The original comment left me room for misinterpretation. I'm clear now on your intent, and on who considers our opinions invalid based on what future employer we may have in mind.

It wasn't very long ago that the rhetoric from management was along the lines of "what's it going to take to make you all pull your applications elsewhere?" When the market appeared to once again turn in management's favor, we saw an immediate reversion to some old habits, and a rushed lowball offer that an anxious pilot group very narrowly accepted a week before it became public knowledge outside of airline management suites that there would be no great wave of legacy furloughs in 2021.

The mood of much of the pilot group seems considerably more frustrated than typical post-contract buyers' remorse. We are in an extended period of seemingly unsustainable demand that we have just been told will extend through to 2023. Some of our pilots are seeking attention from companies that choose to present themselves like real career destinations. Many are finding that our recency and quality of flight experience over the last 18 months help us stand out among the competition - for now. It's not just the 20-somethings or the chronic malcontents who are feeling pressured to consider their options.

Lockheed

I don't blame you or anyone else one bit for consideringyour options,
however let's not monday morning quarterback the hard decisions that the MEC made 9 months ago...they made those tough decisions with the full knowledge that it might better to go to war...but that rarely works out for anyone...they made a unanimous decision, we voted, it passed...thats it

honestly, and this goes for everyone, including me, how bout' we all start showing some unity and concentrate on pulling in the same direction for Contract 2025...negotiations may start in 28 months!...

Riverside

I don't think it is a negative turn. I think it is a good discussion. Especially on a contract that barely passed.