Got the call!
03-07-2007, 07:32 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
I think you have an over optimistic opinion of what a union is capable of. No union, ALPA or otherwise, can walk into the CEO’s office and demand much of anything. It is called negotiation for a reason, neither side gets exactly what they want. Even when a pilot group has a collective bargaining agreement, it is only as good as the management that respects it. Ask some Mesa guys how well their contract is enforced. For that matter, Go-jet has a union, how’s that going? As long a management at B6 is willing to make changes for the better, and actually get it done…
It seems to me that most of the people who complain about B6 the most, are not the people working here.
It seems to me that most of the people who complain about B6 the most, are not the people working here.
Actually I have a very balanced and experienced viewpoint.
I have worked at both Union carriers and Non-union.
If you have a Union, you have the legal right to negotiate a legally binding deal.
If you don't have a Union, you don't. You are at "AT will" employee. You can ask (Beg for changes) but they are at the whim of MGT. And MGT can change it's mind any time they want. With a Union and a contact it is much more difficult for Managment to impose changes. As of late we have witnessed MGT using the Bankruptcy laws and courts to do their negotiating for them. If you think what happened at AAA, DAL, United and NWA was bad, it would have been much worse had they not had Unions and contracts.
A Union is only as strong as it's membership. I can't speak for Mesa because I don't work there. If they have an ineffective Union, it is because they have a weak membership, in other words the members aren't willing to fight hard enough to get what they feel they deserve.
As long as you do not have high hopes for meaningful pay raises and work rules at B6 and I hope you do not see a merger or acquistion with a carrier who is represented by a Union.
I doubt you would be happy with the integration.
03-07-2007, 09:25 PM
#34
Administrator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
A Union is only as strong as it's membership. I can't speak for Mesa because I don't work there. If they have an ineffective Union, it is because they have a weak membership, in other words the members aren't willing to fight hard enough to get what they feel they deserve.
03-29-2007, 06:30 AM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 72
Actually I have a very balanced and experienced viewpoint.
I have worked at both Union carriers and Non-union.
If you have a Union, you have the legal right to negotiate a legally binding deal.
If you don't have a Union, you don't. You are at "AT will" employee. You can ask (Beg for changes) but they are at the whim of MGT. And MGT can change it's mind any time they want. With a Union and a contact it is much more difficult for Managment to impose changes. As of late we have witnessed MGT using the Bankruptcy laws and courts to do their negotiating for them. If you think what happened at AAA, DAL, United and NWA was bad, it would have been much worse had they not had Unions and contracts.
A Union is only as strong as it's membership. I can't speak for Mesa because I don't work there. If they have an ineffective Union, it is because they have a weak membership, in other words the members aren't willing to fight hard enough to get what they feel they deserve.
As long as you do not have high hopes for meaningful pay raises and work rules at B6 and I hope you do not see a merger or acquistion with a carrier who is represented by a Union.
I doubt you would be happy with the integration.
I have worked at both Union carriers and Non-union.
If you have a Union, you have the legal right to negotiate a legally binding deal.
If you don't have a Union, you don't. You are at "AT will" employee. You can ask (Beg for changes) but they are at the whim of MGT. And MGT can change it's mind any time they want. With a Union and a contact it is much more difficult for Managment to impose changes. As of late we have witnessed MGT using the Bankruptcy laws and courts to do their negotiating for them. If you think what happened at AAA, DAL, United and NWA was bad, it would have been much worse had they not had Unions and contracts.
A Union is only as strong as it's membership. I can't speak for Mesa because I don't work there. If they have an ineffective Union, it is because they have a weak membership, in other words the members aren't willing to fight hard enough to get what they feel they deserve.
As long as you do not have high hopes for meaningful pay raises and work rules at B6 and I hope you do not see a merger or acquistion with a carrier who is represented by a Union.
I doubt you would be happy with the integration.
I agree with much of what you have to say R. However, in every case of a union carrier having their contracts declared "null and void" by the courts makes them essentially a "non union" carrier now...just like B6. In all comparisons to A320 pay scales of bankrupt carriers the B6 pay exceeds their current pay scales. That being said, when they come back their pay will start to climb again but the battle will be a very long and drawn out battle. Meanwhile, B6 continues to be paid a higher wage without the battle...for now. I guess technically none of these carriers are still in bankruptcy. However, their pay scales are still sitting at bankrupt levels...below B6.
I just got the call too...
03-31-2007, 07:58 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: The Right One
Posts: 588
I agree with much of what you have to say R. However, in every case of a union carrier having their contracts declared "null and void" by the courts makes them essentially a "non union" carrier now...just like B6. In all comparisons to A320 pay scales of bankrupt carriers the B6 pay exceeds their current pay scales. That being said, when they come back their pay will start to climb again but the battle will be a very long and drawn out battle. Meanwhile, B6 continues to be paid a higher wage without the battle...for now. I guess technically none of these carriers are still in bankruptcy. However, their pay scales are still sitting at bankrupt levels...below B6.
And without having to pay dues......
Won't know if I made the right decision till I'm 60 sumtin.....
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