BlueJetDork

Expected is indeed required.

Lots of insurance plans have expected language which requires you to take reasonable care.

But that is contract law.

The BlueBook and other manuals are employment law and with this the employer gets to define 'intent' of the language.

"Expected" is required. Doubt that then call Grievance chairs.

Combatcraig

So a couple weeks ago some FAs I was flying with were talking about some JB inflight FB page that they post comments about unruly pax etc. I joined the page thinking it would be entertaining reading regarding the drama in the back. Didn't take long to see the high and mighty comments about how if pilots aren't willing to help clean they have no problem reporting them. Yay. Thanks blue glove monitor guy... Haven't heard of anyone getting called to the carpet yet but apparently they're reporting us if they don't see us helping. Awesome. Nothing like missing my shuttle etc because I rushed off the plane trying to make transportation instead of dumpster diving... Didn't realize when I came here there would be an US vs THEM mentality between pilots and inflight. Certainly none of that was hinted at during indoc-we are one big blue family lol. Not so much! Disappointing to say the least...

clear4approach

Never clean on duty including deadheading. There is no basis in any manual to have us clean while on duty. JetBlue has a bazillion flight attendants, and I'm usually flying 1 or 2 legs with them, and I'll likely never see them again for months if not years. I don't give a crap if any of them gives me the stink eye, or says something to me.

When non-revving it doesn't specify how much you should clean, what constitutes cleaning, how much time you should spend cleaning, nor that any inflight crew sees you clean or verifies that you clean.

Armrest up? Well looks like I've done my part to help the "blue turn"

Make sure MY garbage is thrown away? Well, looks like I've done my part to help the "blue turn"

atrdriver

Ok, so here's the deal.

Yes, the FOM specifically says cleaning is not required while on duty.

However, in the the spirit of the CARING and INTEGRITY VALUES, BlewJet has fostered--actually, intentionally created--an adversarial relationship between FAs and pilots by planting in their impressionable heads that the pilots are expected to assist with the "Blew Turn" and that the pilots aren't living our faux values if they do not assist. This, in turn, leads to a breakdown in CRM and safety by creating an us versus them mentality which is completely unnecessary and unavoidable.

It is this peer pressure that leads normally rational non-juicers to don the gloves and dumpster dive in back. (I facepalm so hard when I see a lanyard-wearer playing janitor in the back. You expect it from the juicers, but f#*k, come on man!)

So you're right, it is not a codified requirement, but a de facto one in the eyes of everyone but those of us who are familiar with the FOM language.

Just another example of how utterly fake and fraudulent the "core values" are.

N311JB

There's always a Loophole fellas/gals. We are (90%) of the time are NOT pass riding! Going to and from work I am not on a pass. I am JUMPSEATING. A privilege given to us as pilots. I check in with the captain and ask for a rid. Nowhere does it say anything about jumpseaters. Ask yourselves, would you order a beer in uniform commuting home from work in uniform, then why clean in uniform.

I always ask the Inflight if I can get there bags down from the overhead, and the majority are way happier with that than watching us clean. Every law break or preflight briefing, I'll tell the inflight prior, I'll do anything for you guys/gals but I'm not cleaning. Confrontation is defused

coopervane

This whole thread depresses me......

pilotpayne

Oh my

Rule 1 never join an FA FB page

Rule 2 FAs are the same everywhere


You know the mob is a "family operation" as well. You see what happens there.

uptpilot

I really wish our Union, for 1.9%, would stop telling us "do what you believe is right". Right or wrong has no bearing on the matter. Legal or illegal doesn't care about right or wrong (morally or ethically).

What are we LEGALLY obligated to do?, and WHY (legal reasons)?

How can we resist if we don't know the legalities? Has ALPA bothered to ask a lawyer on staff this question? For 1.9%+, we deserve a legal interpretation that we can go to court with sent out officially by ALPA without using nebulous phrases such as "do what you think is right".

uptpilot

I am on your side, believe me, but you must view this like a lawyer. If you took the training, you signed a legal document. How are you not liable at this point?

uptpilot

Yup... Management 101 stuff. If they believed in their "core values", they would sign a reciprocal CONTRACT with the pilots holding BJ accountable to their "core values".

Otherwise, it's management 101 smoke and mirrors for the uninitiated to believe in.