JetBlue Latest and Greatest
09-01-2020, 08:35 PM
#9541
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
That said, looking at 24.K.1/24.K.2, and 24.P I’m not certain a displacement on this bid is free and clear of all applicable seat locks (specifically equipment freezes or status freezes) incurred by their new seat, as they would be if they are under an existing equipment freeze and then displaced by a bid (which does nullify any locks). I hope I am wrong. But here’s how I am reading it:
24.k.1.c appears to be the carveout for displacements, but the way it’s worded, it looks like it applies to those getting displaced while under an existing equipment freeze, and that freeze being lifted because they are displaced. And 24.k.2 (Downgrades/status freeze) doesn’t appear to have any carveout for displacement.
So the way I read it...let’s say I was a bus FO, I upgraded to 190CA on the last annual system bid, finished training in January, then on this bid I got displaced to 320FO. 24.k.1.c gives me equipment freeze relief to go back to the bus and not be stuck on the 190 as an FO. But let’s say I do 320 FO downgrade training, start/finish in October, then the 220 bid comes out in November. I’d get equipment freeze relief for the 220 specifically (but not 190CA because nothing under 24.k.1 would give me that equipment freeze relief). However, that’s just the equipment freeze paragraph. I’d be stuck under the status freeze (24.k.2) for 2 years, as new equipment/displacement language is a line item under equipment freeze only and doesn’t appear to apply to status freezes.
Anyway, that’s my long-winded reading of it, playing devil’s advocate. I had been told by my union rep that if I was displaced to the right seat, I’d have no freezes, but that if I vacancy bid to a downgrade I would be subject to a 2 year status freeze. I hope that is the case and my reading of the CBA is wrong (or I’m missing something in another section), and that the union and company sends some clarification out for 24.K (hopefully saying that anyone who was displaced is under no equipment or status freeze).
09-02-2020, 03:51 AM
#9542
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 930
A voluntary displacement and an involuntary displacement have the exact same rights. A vacancy bid doesn’t.
That said, looking at 24.K.1/24.K.2, and 24.P I’m not certain a displacement on this bid is free and clear of all applicable seat locks (specifically equipment freezes or status freezes) incurred by their new seat, as they would be if they are under an existing equipment freeze and then displaced by a bid (which does nullify any locks). I hope I am wrong. But here’s how I am reading it:
24.k.1.c appears to be the carveout for displacements, but the way it’s worded, it looks like it applies to those getting displaced while under an existing equipment freeze, and that freeze being lifted because they are displaced. And 24.k.2 (Downgrades/status freeze) doesn’t appear to have any carveout for displacement.
So the way I read it...let’s say I was a bus FO, I upgraded to 190CA on the last annual system bid, finished training in January, then on this bid I got displaced to 320FO. 24.k.1.c gives me equipment freeze relief to go back to the bus and not be stuck on the 190 as an FO. But let’s say I do 320 FO downgrade training, start/finish in October, then the 220 bid comes out in November. I’d get equipment freeze relief for the 220 specifically (but not 190CA because nothing under 24.k.1 would give me that equipment freeze relief). However, that’s just the equipment freeze paragraph. I’d be stuck under the status freeze (24.k.2) for 2 years, as new equipment/displacement language is a line item under equipment freeze only and doesn’t appear to apply to status freezes.
Anyway, that’s my long-winded reading of it, playing devil’s advocate. I had been told by my union rep that if I was displaced to the right seat, I’d have no freezes, but that if I vacancy bid to a downgrade I would be subject to a 2 year status freeze. I hope that is the case and my reading of the CBA is wrong (or I’m missing something in another section), and that the union and company sends some clarification out for 24.K (hopefully saying that anyone who was displaced is under no equipment or status freeze).
That said, looking at 24.K.1/24.K.2, and 24.P I’m not certain a displacement on this bid is free and clear of all applicable seat locks (specifically equipment freezes or status freezes) incurred by their new seat, as they would be if they are under an existing equipment freeze and then displaced by a bid (which does nullify any locks). I hope I am wrong. But here’s how I am reading it:
24.k.1.c appears to be the carveout for displacements, but the way it’s worded, it looks like it applies to those getting displaced while under an existing equipment freeze, and that freeze being lifted because they are displaced. And 24.k.2 (Downgrades/status freeze) doesn’t appear to have any carveout for displacement.
So the way I read it...let’s say I was a bus FO, I upgraded to 190CA on the last annual system bid, finished training in January, then on this bid I got displaced to 320FO. 24.k.1.c gives me equipment freeze relief to go back to the bus and not be stuck on the 190 as an FO. But let’s say I do 320 FO downgrade training, start/finish in October, then the 220 bid comes out in November. I’d get equipment freeze relief for the 220 specifically (but not 190CA because nothing under 24.k.1 would give me that equipment freeze relief). However, that’s just the equipment freeze paragraph. I’d be stuck under the status freeze (24.k.2) for 2 years, as new equipment/displacement language is a line item under equipment freeze only and doesn’t appear to apply to status freezes.
Anyway, that’s my long-winded reading of it, playing devil’s advocate. I had been told by my union rep that if I was displaced to the right seat, I’d have no freezes, but that if I vacancy bid to a downgrade I would be subject to a 2 year status freeze. I hope that is the case and my reading of the CBA is wrong (or I’m missing something in another section), and that the union and company sends some clarification out for 24.K (hopefully saying that anyone who was displaced is under no equipment or status freeze).
09-02-2020, 07:36 AM
#9544
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,010
09-02-2020, 07:59 AM
#9545
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 381
Lots of fun to speculate, I suppose, but no one here knows if this pilot screwed up his bid or purposely bid a downgrade.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
09-02-2020, 08:11 AM
#9546
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
Lots of fun to speculate, I suppose, but no one here knows if this pilot screwed up his bid or purposely bid a downgrade.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
09-02-2020, 08:16 AM
#9547
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 381
At least 2 people on here (incl a mod) know him. And said it was a mistake. JetBlue Latest and Greatest
09-02-2020, 08:16 AM
#9548
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
I have always heard the intent was to not apply freezes for any new status/equipment you are displaced into. But the way it’s worded, I’m not so sure it’d hold up that way if the company didn’t agree.
09-02-2020, 08:26 AM
#9549
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 1,047
Lots of fun to speculate, I suppose, but no one here knows if this pilot screwed up his bid or purposely bid a downgrade.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
09-02-2020, 08:47 AM
#9550
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,327
Lots of fun to speculate, I suppose, but no one here knows if this pilot screwed up his bid or purposely bid a downgrade.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
And if it's the latter no one here knows his motivation for doing so.
I personally believe that despite all the emails and instructional videos, there was a lot of confusion and, as a result, a lot of pilots potentially screwed up their bid.
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