JetBlue Latest and Greatest
08-22-2019, 10:23 AM
#8281
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 442
The fine went away in the subsequent negotiations. Whether or not it affected the CBA is debatable (despite likeitis saying otherwise). There’s a lot more than that fine that went into that round of negotiations.
And here’s the bigger point since you guys are missing the forest for the trees. There have been a LOT more unofficial alleged work actions that haven’t faced (or lost with any consequence) any lawsuits (recent example something like SPA chokers website). The example you brought up was a VERY egregious work action...it wasn’t a matter of people not picking up open time on their days off...it was a coordinated sick out.
I’m not advocating any illegal work actions now or in the future. In fact I discouraged them during our negotiations in my conversations with people about the subject. But I’m also not going to spread FUD, or allow FUD to be spread by guys like you, uncontested. If guys get tired of being abused day after day, and they happen to be in a labor dispute, and they don’t want to pick up trips anymore when historically they have...there is no judge in the world who can make them change their mind and go to work on a day off. But you keep spreading fear about stuff like that.
So are you management? Do you work for F&H?
08-22-2019, 10:29 AM
#8282
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 442
Listen to what some of you are saying...to paraphrase:
"I know that what I want to do is illegal, but I don't care because I don't think there will be consequences."
Then you'll turn around 5 minutes later and complain that the company violates the CBA because they don't think there will be consequences.
Either principles matter, or they don't. If they don't matter to you, then stop complaining about the company pushing the limits of the CBA. Be consistent.
"I know that what I want to do is illegal, but I don't care because I don't think there will be consequences."
Then you'll turn around 5 minutes later and complain that the company violates the CBA because they don't think there will be consequences.
Either principles matter, or they don't. If they don't matter to you, then stop complaining about the company pushing the limits of the CBA. Be consistent.
08-22-2019, 10:38 AM
#8283
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Pushing the limits of the CBA? You serious Clark? What the company did was a clear violation of the mutually agreed upon CBA. Deciding not to work on days off is NOT a violation of the CBA or the law. It’s a personal choice. If coordinated it can be illegal. But I’m not advocating for that (I haven’t really advocated for anything, just shooting holes in these FUD campaigns). You’re comparing apples to oranges to fit your pro-company, anti-pilot narrative that you normally have. Shocker.
I'm not excusing the company's behavior with regard to the CBA. If I were in charge, I would demand the same level of respect that I expect from my peers. I just think it's interesting that people defend/encourage violations if it's in their interest, and scream bloody murder if it's the company working against them.
Principles shouldn't change depending upon the individual's point of view.
08-22-2019, 10:41 AM
#8284
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 332
They. Never. Paid. It. I used my words earlier “paid out” carefully. Just because it was upheld doesn’t mean it was paid.
The fine went away in the subsequent negotiations. Whether or not it affected the CBA is debatable (despite likeitis saying otherwise). There’s a lot more than that fine that went into that round of negotiations.
And here’s the bigger point since you guys are missing the forest for the trees. There have been a LOT more unofficial alleged work actions that haven’t faced (or lost with any consequence) any lawsuits (recent example something like SPA chokers website). The example you brought up was a VERY egregious work action...it wasn’t a matter of people not picking up open time on their days off...it was a coordinated sick out.
I’m not advocating any illegal work actions now or in the future. In fact I discouraged them during our negotiations in my conversations with people about the subject. But I’m also not going to spread FUD, or allow FUD to be spread by guys like you, uncontested. If guys get tired of being abused day after day, and they happen to be in a labor dispute, and they don’t want to pick up trips anymore when historically they have...there is no judge in the world who can make them change their mind and go to work on a day off. But you keep spreading fear about stuff like that.
So are you management? Do you work for F&H?
The fine went away in the subsequent negotiations. Whether or not it affected the CBA is debatable (despite likeitis saying otherwise). There’s a lot more than that fine that went into that round of negotiations.
And here’s the bigger point since you guys are missing the forest for the trees. There have been a LOT more unofficial alleged work actions that haven’t faced (or lost with any consequence) any lawsuits (recent example something like SPA chokers website). The example you brought up was a VERY egregious work action...it wasn’t a matter of people not picking up open time on their days off...it was a coordinated sick out.
I’m not advocating any illegal work actions now or in the future. In fact I discouraged them during our negotiations in my conversations with people about the subject. But I’m also not going to spread FUD, or allow FUD to be spread by guys like you, uncontested. If guys get tired of being abused day after day, and they happen to be in a labor dispute, and they don’t want to pick up trips anymore when historically they have...there is no judge in the world who can make them change their mind and go to work on a day off. But you keep spreading fear about stuff like that.
So are you management? Do you work for F&H?
No, not management. Also don't work for F&H.
08-22-2019, 01:24 PM
#8285
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
That's actually not true. No evidence of coordination is required. All that is needed is a clear and definitive change in the data pattern.
BUT
There are enough posts on here, BluePilots, and The Potato Farm to easily demonstrate coordination, even though that isn't required to lose the lawsuit. Companies win these lawsuits. Handily. Because web boards and data.
BUT
There are enough posts on here, BluePilots, and The Potato Farm to easily demonstrate coordination, even though that isn't required to lose the lawsuit. Companies win these lawsuits. Handily. Because web boards and data.
Last edited by Bluedriver; 08-22-2019 at 01:44 PM.
08-22-2019, 01:44 PM
#8286
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
They. Never. Paid. It. I used my words earlier “paid out” carefully. Just because it was upheld doesn’t mean it was paid.
The fine went away in the subsequent negotiations. Whether or not it affected the CBA is debatable (despite likeitis saying otherwise). There’s a lot more than that fine that went into that round of negotiations.
And here’s the bigger point since you guys are missing the forest for the trees. There have been a LOT more unofficial alleged work actions that haven’t faced (or lost with any consequence) any lawsuits (recent example something like SPA chokers website). The example you brought up was a VERY egregious work action...it wasn’t a matter of people not picking up open time on their days off...it was a coordinated sick out.
I’m not advocating any illegal work actions now or in the future. In fact I discouraged them during our negotiations in my conversations with people about the subject. But I’m also not going to spread FUD, or allow FUD to be spread by guys like you, uncontested. If guys get tired of being abused day after day, and they happen to be in a labor dispute, and they don’t want to pick up trips anymore when historically they have...there is no judge in the world who can make them change their mind and go to work on a day off. But you keep spreading fear about stuff like that.
So are you management? Do you work for F&H?
The fine went away in the subsequent negotiations. Whether or not it affected the CBA is debatable (despite likeitis saying otherwise). There’s a lot more than that fine that went into that round of negotiations.
And here’s the bigger point since you guys are missing the forest for the trees. There have been a LOT more unofficial alleged work actions that haven’t faced (or lost with any consequence) any lawsuits (recent example something like SPA chokers website). The example you brought up was a VERY egregious work action...it wasn’t a matter of people not picking up open time on their days off...it was a coordinated sick out.
I’m not advocating any illegal work actions now or in the future. In fact I discouraged them during our negotiations in my conversations with people about the subject. But I’m also not going to spread FUD, or allow FUD to be spread by guys like you, uncontested. If guys get tired of being abused day after day, and they happen to be in a labor dispute, and they don’t want to pick up trips anymore when historically they have...there is no judge in the world who can make them change their mind and go to work on a day off. But you keep spreading fear about stuff like that.
So are you management? Do you work for F&H?
08-22-2019, 05:10 PM
#8287
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Hopefully we never get any clear and objective evidence of how wrong you are. The courts have cited these exact types of message boards in previous cases.
08-22-2019, 05:49 PM
#8289
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
The data, by itself, is NOT enough.
And, there is ALWAYS message board bravado, yet there is almost never a lawsuit. There is almost always a reduction in overtime picked up by union employees during a Labor Dispute, yet there is almost never a lawsuit.
A lawsuit is by FAR the minority, not the norm.
08-23-2019, 05:27 AM
#8290
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Exactly! That's called EVIDENCE of coordination.
The data, by itself, is NOT enough.
And, there is ALWAYS message board bravado, yet there is almost never a lawsuit. There is almost always a reduction in overtime picked up by union employees during a Labor Dispute, yet there is almost never a lawsuit.
A lawsuit is by FAR the minority, not the norm.
The data, by itself, is NOT enough.
And, there is ALWAYS message board bravado, yet there is almost never a lawsuit. There is almost always a reduction in overtime picked up by union employees during a Labor Dispute, yet there is almost never a lawsuit.
A lawsuit is by FAR the minority, not the norm.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
