hilltopflyer

I was actually a no vote but moved over because the contract didn’t do anything for the 190. It was written for the airbus. If the company needs to raise the rates on the 199 they are going to have to do a lot more then raise just the rates on the 190 to make it worthwhile for me. Other people might feel differently but that’s just me. I didn’t see a reason to vote this contract in right before the summer time when we actually had some leverage and I see no reason to help the company training cost wise when it doesn’t help me at all. We get no profit sharing for making this training problem the company put themselves in so why make life easier on them.

hilltopflyer

Exactly what I was trying to say but much bettter.

Mattio

Ok, I had a 74% chance of being right ;-) and I'm not adamant enough on this forum to keep track of where guys stood on the contract... In the end, it's always the bottom line for this company. They might fix their training problem by outsourcing, buying more sims, hiring more instructors etc. If it's cheaper for them to raise 190 pay, they may do it. If you try to get them to bundle things with a 190 pay raise, it may not be cheaper any more or they may not be able to raise the 190 pay enough to get guys to stay on it and, thus, they wouldn't do it. I can see both sides of the argument when guys do or don't care what affect their contract vote has on the rest of the industry, however, if you have a chance to let guys in your own pilot group grab a bigger slice of the pie then that helps the whole group. At the next negotiations, all those slices of pie will be on the table and we SHOULD get to keep them, albeit divied up differently based on what we want as a group then. Not to mention we would probably be year into this CBA minimum before any 190 raise and you push it back with negotiations, looking for more then we just keep getting closer to the next CBA. (I was a No voter too but I don't see the upside of turning down a juicy raise for the 190.) Also, I have been here long enough to know that the 190's aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Things are going to happen slow and get delayed as usual. We'll check back in 2030 ;-)

nuball5

I hope this isn’t true, but I’m sure there’s one idiot out there that thinks that. I’m sure the failure rate is higher for guys transitioning from the Airbus to the 190 anyway. I guess I better brush up on my TMAAT questions if I want to fly with the big boys one day.

Mattio

Ya, I think it was just one or two crackpots but I've also heard of Airbus guys treating 190 guys differently, saying "JetBlue Express" etc. From talking to guys that previously worked at other major airlines, that wasn't the case with the culture there. Smaller planes are often more challenging to fly with lower levels of automation etc. The crazy range of pay scales never made sense to me. Wish you could just fly the plane that had the type of flying, schedules, and piloting experience that you want and the money wasn't a factor in the decision. I know that's not going to happen but if you compare the gross weights of the 747 and 717 and then look at the payscales we have a relatively much larger pay reduction going from the A320 to E190 (based on ratio of GW change to change in pay). Things are heading in the wrong direction IMO

Flyby1206

After having flown both planes I can say the 190 guys are self-deprecating and use the “JetBlue Express” joke much more than the 320 guys. I was guilty as well, but it was all in fun. Believe me, the 320 guys have lots of their own problems to make fun of! Drastic difference in crews

leavemealone

It seems silly to vote no to me also. One thing people seem to forget is that there will be another round of negotiations. In this market I have seen the best negotiating enviroment of my career. Who knows if that will continue through the next contract. If the 190 doesn't go away before the next contract the current rates are what you are negotiationg off of. Wouldn't it be better if you were negotiating from a higher hourly rate? If Delta A320 rates were $500/hr JBLU would be getting at least $400/hr. You are only as strong as your weakest link. IMHO you should negotiate hard for the bottom rates in hopes that they drive up the top rates.

usmc-sgt

Heard it all the time on the Embraer. Not once on the Airbus.

Mattio

That's good to hear. I'm just going off what other people have told me but haven't been on the receiving end personally

dontsurf

yeah, i have only ever heard 190 guys saying those types of things. we airbus guys actually forget that the 190 guys exist most of the time. just kidding!