JetBlue Latest and Greatest
05-14-2018, 03:37 PM
#6281
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
So you are arguing the following:
1. DAL could be forced to clean while non reving in their current contract.
2. That if such a loophole existed, it COULD NOT be closed.
3. If it could be closed that it would take more than one negotiating cycle for it to go away.
Please tell me how little you value yourself again.
05-14-2018, 03:44 PM
#6282
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
False choice fallacy. Straw man. Ad hominem. Wow. All in three sentences.
So you are arguing the following:
1. DAL could be forced to clean while non reving in their current contract.
2. That if such a loophole existed, it COULD NOT be closed.
3. If it could be closed that it would take more than one negotiating cycle for it to go away.
Please tell me how little you value yourself again.
So you are arguing the following:
1. DAL could be forced to clean while non reving in their current contract.
2. That if such a loophole existed, it COULD NOT be closed.
3. If it could be closed that it would take more than one negotiating cycle for it to go away.
Please tell me how little you value yourself again.
05-14-2018, 04:47 PM
#6283
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
False choice fallacy. Straw man. Ad hominem. Wow. All in three sentences.
So you are arguing the following:
1. DAL could be forced to clean while non reving in their current contract.
2. That if such a loophole existed, it COULD NOT be closed.
3. If it could be closed that it would take more than one negotiating cycle for it to go away.
Please tell me how little you value yourself again.
So you are arguing the following:
1. DAL could be forced to clean while non reving in their current contract.
2. That if such a loophole existed, it COULD NOT be closed.
3. If it could be closed that it would take more than one negotiating cycle for it to go away.
Please tell me how little you value yourself again.
Personally, I prefer the crossing a few seatbelts to paying money, and here is why. Paying an annual fee gives money directly to the company, and it does nothing to help out any specific person. If I help cross a few seatbelts, it directly makes someone's day easier, and that's more important to me than giving the company money. But that's just my point of view. Some feel the opposite, and both are valid positions. I always found it highly offensive that a regional airline pilot making pennies was forced to PAY for non-rev travel.
2. Anything can be closed in a CBA. The question is, what are we willing to negotiate away to close that loop? I would rather be paid well with good work rules and scope, personally. But some of you guys have egos so big that you'd prefer to use negotiating capital to get rid of it. Again, that's your prerogative.
3.Who knows how long it would take to negotiate away. The company would see it as a great way to get some blood out of us.
05-14-2018, 05:02 PM
#6284
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Why not? Are you a defeatist? Laws can be changed overnight if you want them to. Corporations literally do it daily. We lack the political will as a pilot group because of willful ignorance.
The only thing you can't change are the laws of physics.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
05-14-2018, 05:59 PM
#6285
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
1. Yes, this is probably true. I doubt that there is anything regarding non-rev requirements in the CBA, specifically with regard to turning the aircraft. The company generally has discretion on what they "charge" for the use of their free seats. When I was at a Delta Connection carrier, they charged us $50 per pass rider. My understanding is that has changed. But there is no difference between charging an annual fee and requiring cleaning in exchange for the free ride. It's just two different methods of charging for a privilege.
Personally, I prefer the crossing a few seatbelts to paying money, and here is why. Paying an annual fee gives money directly to the company, and it does nothing to help out any specific person. If I help cross a few seatbelts, it directly makes someone's day easier, and that's more important to me than giving the company money. But that's just my point of view. Some feel the opposite, and both are valid positions. I always found it highly offensive that a regional airline pilot making pennies was forced to PAY for non-rev travel.
2. Anything can be closed in a CBA. The question is, what are we willing to negotiate away to close that loop? I would rather be paid well with good work rules and scope, personally. But some of you guys have egos so big that you'd prefer to use negotiating capital to get rid of it. Again, that's your prerogative.
3.Who knows how long it would take to negotiate away. The company would see it as a great way to get some blood out of us.
Personally, I prefer the crossing a few seatbelts to paying money, and here is why. Paying an annual fee gives money directly to the company, and it does nothing to help out any specific person. If I help cross a few seatbelts, it directly makes someone's day easier, and that's more important to me than giving the company money. But that's just my point of view. Some feel the opposite, and both are valid positions. I always found it highly offensive that a regional airline pilot making pennies was forced to PAY for non-rev travel.
2. Anything can be closed in a CBA. The question is, what are we willing to negotiate away to close that loop? I would rather be paid well with good work rules and scope, personally. But some of you guys have egos so big that you'd prefer to use negotiating capital to get rid of it. Again, that's your prerogative.
3.Who knows how long it would take to negotiate away. The company would see it as a great way to get some blood out of us.
Good luck to all of us.
05-14-2018, 06:06 PM
#6286
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
You can do plenty about it...
Don't be a low performance defeatist. That is the poor, ignorant attitude that gives us this horrible industry.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
05-14-2018, 06:11 PM
#6287
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Summer is here and our group was unified, wall street is downgrading the stock, our hiring pool is shrinking, and a fleet review is happening (requiring a TA).
In other words, we had as much leverage as a group could have without being on strike. If the MEC descided to give all that up for this AIP I assume it is pretty good.
In other words, we had as much leverage as a group could have without being on strike. If the MEC descided to give all that up for this AIP I assume it is pretty good.
We will be pressure with a semi-sweet deal but still below respectable standards. Most of the jellyfish here will cave in. The important thing is to accept full nuclear disarmament or to engage in full scale diplomatic sanctions until we get what we want.
Like someone said, "you can have pay, or work rules, but not both".
Don't accept false choices. If you push hard enough you can get it all. The industry is at a great point - if you can't get it now, you never will.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
05-14-2018, 06:13 PM
#6288
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
#fakenews
Went away last year, complete with a refund for the previous year.
Went away last year, complete with a refund for the previous year.
Their contracts are on the internet, go find it and give me a citation, I may have missed it.
But the reality is Delta pilots pay $50 per year per pass traveler to non rev. We clean. Not sure what United is doing as far as fees go.
I'd rather pay a fee, personally, but I don't write the book.
But the reality is Delta pilots pay $50 per year per pass traveler to non rev. We clean. Not sure what United is doing as far as fees go.
I'd rather pay a fee, personally, but I don't write the book.
05-14-2018, 06:17 PM
#6290
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
1. Yes, this is probably true. I doubt that there is anything regarding non-rev requirements in the CBA, specifically with regard to turning the aircraft. The company generally has discretion on what they "charge" for the use of their free seats. When I was at a Delta Connection carrier, they charged us $50 per pass rider. My understanding is that has changed. But there is no difference between charging an annual fee and requiring cleaning in exchange for the free ride. It's just two different methods of charging for a privilege.
Personally, I prefer the crossing a few seatbelts to paying money, and here is why. Paying an annual fee gives money directly to the company, and it does nothing to help out any specific person. If I help cross a few seatbelts, it directly makes someone's day easier, and that's more important to me than giving the company money. But that's just my point of view. Some feel the opposite, and both are valid positions. I always found it highly offensive that a regional airline pilot making pennies was forced to PAY for non-rev travel.
2. Anything can be closed in a CBA. The question is, what are we willing to negotiate away to close that loop? I would rather be paid well with good work rules and scope, personally. But some of you guys have egos so big that you'd prefer to use negotiating capital to get rid of it. Again, that's your prerogative.
3.Who knows how long it would take to negotiate away. The company would see it as a great way to get some blood out of us.
Personally, I prefer the crossing a few seatbelts to paying money, and here is why. Paying an annual fee gives money directly to the company, and it does nothing to help out any specific person. If I help cross a few seatbelts, it directly makes someone's day easier, and that's more important to me than giving the company money. But that's just my point of view. Some feel the opposite, and both are valid positions. I always found it highly offensive that a regional airline pilot making pennies was forced to PAY for non-rev travel.
2. Anything can be closed in a CBA. The question is, what are we willing to negotiate away to close that loop? I would rather be paid well with good work rules and scope, personally. But some of you guys have egos so big that you'd prefer to use negotiating capital to get rid of it. Again, that's your prerogative.
3.Who knows how long it would take to negotiate away. The company would see it as a great way to get some blood out of us.
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