JetBlue Latest and Greatest
01-26-2018, 10:04 AM
#5332
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
How is what someone charges in the market not market rate? An Apple cost such and such at Kroger that's the cost. But on to my point, how is us getting market rate going to hurt the company enough to make them stop growing. They are already putting off aircraft. That is their own choice to stop growing.
01-26-2018, 12:07 PM
#5333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 155
Anyone looking to come here don't waste your time. Our management has made it clear what they think about our profession as pilots. The little raise the Airbus will get will come at concessions to other work rules. They have made it clear they won't pay the 190 any higher wages. A new hire today will be looking at sitting in the right seat of the 190 for a very long time. Best case upgrading on the 190, but it will be a very very long time to hold AB captain or even be senior as an FO on the AB.
The growth has slowed down. The current management of this company is incompetent. Due to mismanagement of irops and daily operations we are now ranked last in on time performance, and our profit sharing in pretty much non existent.
Don't apply here, and if you are new try to leave asap.
The growth has slowed down. The current management of this company is incompetent. Due to mismanagement of irops and daily operations we are now ranked last in on time performance, and our profit sharing in pretty much non existent.
Don't apply here, and if you are new try to leave asap.
01-26-2018, 12:30 PM
#5335
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
JetBlue Latest and Greatest
Southerner...you want to talk about a false marketplace, let’s have a discussion about how you would start over at the bottom if you went to delta. We have a HUGE financial/QOL incentive to stay at a substandard airline that isn’t the best, or even close to being the best, because of the seniority/longevity reset we incur, which doesn’t happen in ANY other profession. In a system as screwed up as ours, where skill, judgment, intellect, and experience matters not (except maybe to get a job, but even then that’s debatable based on some of the idiots we, and others, hire), and seniority rules everything but doesn’t transfer, along with many other pitfalls of the RLA, management actually has the false marketplace at its fingertips, where they can suppress wages far below “market rate” for their most skilled/trained/expensive labor group knowing that *hope* is a strong emotion, and people can not afford to leave a relatively crappy company for a better one at the expense of their seniority.
Management exploits people like you who don’t support the union that tries to even the playing field and overcome probably the most lopsided labor market in the country. Fortunately we have more and more strong willed pilots who know their worth who are countering you and your lanyardless ilk. Why do you think every pilot group is unionized? Why do you think jetblue management, along with every other airline management, spends millions each year on union busting? Because unions are the only means we have to overcome the unfair advantage management has. But keep spewing your nonsense about how the union creates a “false marketplace” for us. Robin thanks you and is proud of you and your juicer ilk for making his job easier to underpay pilots. While he has record profits on the highest margin in the industry, he continues to pay you 30-50% lower than your peers. FUPM.
Management exploits people like you who don’t support the union that tries to even the playing field and overcome probably the most lopsided labor market in the country. Fortunately we have more and more strong willed pilots who know their worth who are countering you and your lanyardless ilk. Why do you think every pilot group is unionized? Why do you think jetblue management, along with every other airline management, spends millions each year on union busting? Because unions are the only means we have to overcome the unfair advantage management has. But keep spewing your nonsense about how the union creates a “false marketplace” for us. Robin thanks you and is proud of you and your juicer ilk for making his job easier to underpay pilots. While he has record profits on the highest margin in the industry, he continues to pay you 30-50% lower than your peers. FUPM.
Did you even read what I posted? I'm not talking about JB, or any other airline. I'm stating an economic fact. Unionized workforces earn more than non-unionized groups because the union creates a false scarcity of labor. If the market were left to be free, the pay is lower. This is simply a fact of the matter, and is an academic response to the dude I was replying to. He and I were having a discussion. You know, one where people comprehend the language, and don't call people names.
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01-26-2018, 01:10 PM
#5336
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Did you even read what I posted? I'm not talking about JB, or any other airline. I'm stating an economic fact. Unionized workforces earn more than non-unionized groups because the union creates a false scarcity of labor. If the market were left to be free, the pay is lower. This is simply a fact of the matter, and is an academic response to the dude I was replying to. He and I were having a discussion. You know, one where people comprehend the language, and don't call people names.
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We don’t live in that environment, and the fact that people like you who seem like you might be somewhat intelligent and put thought into this stuff, yet work against yourself by not supporting your union, blows my mind. And the fact that you think you need to subsidize JetBlue’s growth with your wages is also baffling. $1.25bil in buybacks southerner. And $1.15bil in profits. How do you need to get paid less to allow us to grow again? Glad you are just happy to work here and help subsidize the company. JetBlue keeps pulling for you (but won’t pay you). Even analysts expect our wages to go up and be higher. Not you, though. Just happy to throw on blue gloves, no lanyard, and be a good helper for 30-50% less pay than your peers.
01-26-2018, 01:15 PM
#5337
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
The only thing that I disagree with there is the concept that by organizing you get market rate. Unions (by definition) create a false marketplace. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because our rates would be far less if it weren't for unions creating the false marketplace. In this case you aren't getting "market rate." You're demanding a rate above market, and denying the company the ability to go to the wider market to shop around.
The RLA does provide us some protections too. If we weren't covered under it, we wouldn't be able to organize in "right to work" states, and also agency shop would be illegal in many states. Guaranteed, it would be more difficult to organize, and the company could bust a union more easily. That being said, there's room for improvement in the RLA.
Before you guys flame me, this is purely an academic discussion about what he says about market rate, and in no way is it a commentary on our current situation at this company.
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The RLA does provide us some protections too. If we weren't covered under it, we wouldn't be able to organize in "right to work" states, and also agency shop would be illegal in many states. Guaranteed, it would be more difficult to organize, and the company could bust a union more easily. That being said, there's room for improvement in the RLA.
Before you guys flame me, this is purely an academic discussion about what he says about market rate, and in no way is it a commentary on our current situation at this company.
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Airbus should allow anyone with a factory to build A320s. They aren't allowing Jetblue to buy A320s manufactured by anyone else and are thus distorting the market.
01-26-2018, 01:18 PM
#5338
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Did you even read what I posted? I'm not talking about JB, or any other airline. I'm stating an economic fact. Unionized workforces earn more than non-unionized groups because the union creates a false scarcity of labor. If the market were left to be free, the pay is lower. This is simply a fact of the matter, and is an academic response to the dude I was replying to. He and I were having a discussion. You know, one where people comprehend the language, and don't call people names.
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01-26-2018, 01:23 PM
#5339
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
01-26-2018, 01:25 PM
#5340
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
So cenralized pricing is market distorting when its labor, but when large companies do it its not. Got it.
Airbus should allow anyone with a factory to build A320s. They aren't allowing Jetblue to buy A320s manufactured by anyone else and are thus distorting the market.
Airbus should allow anyone with a factory to build A320s. They aren't allowing Jetblue to buy A320s manufactured by anyone else and are thus distorting the market.
There are many types of market failures. I didn't say that unionization is the ONLY one. Nor did I say anything suggesting that I disagree with unionizing, particularly in the case of pilots. I'm simply staying a fact.
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