JetBlue Latest and Greatest
12-01-2016, 04:38 PM
#2011
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,929
My point was I don't fly the 190 for QOL as YOU SAID.
Like you said we all pick based on needs but I will never vote for a contract that screws a chunk of our pilots. From jr guys to rsv guy from 190 to the bus we need to make it work for everyone. So is there a % of pay between the bus and the 190 where you would say no? It's now 10% which you said has screwed things up.(3a and all) What if they say 30% difference can you look at the 190 guys and say sorry bid for the bus hope you can hold it. That's my point man we need to watch that %
Anyway before this goes the wrong way. We don't even have a TA so we can save all of this for later. JetBlue really needs to get its game up with the new Delta TA
Like you said we all pick based on needs but I will never vote for a contract that screws a chunk of our pilots. From jr guys to rsv guy from 190 to the bus we need to make it work for everyone. So is there a % of pay between the bus and the 190 where you would say no? It's now 10% which you said has screwed things up.(3a and all) What if they say 30% difference can you look at the 190 guys and say sorry bid for the bus hope you can hold it. That's my point man we need to watch that %
Anyway before this goes the wrong way. We don't even have a TA so we can save all of this for later. JetBlue really needs to get its game up with the new Delta TA
Last edited by pilotpayne; 12-01-2016 at 04:52 PM.
12-01-2016, 04:51 PM
#2012
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 992
My point was I don't fly the 190 for QOL as YOU SAID.
Like you said we all pick based on needs but I will never vote for a contract that screws a chunk of our pilots. From jr guys to rsv guy from 190 to the bus we need to make it work for everyone. So is there a % of pay between the bus and the 190 where you would say no? It's now 10% which you said has screwed things up.(3a and all) What if they say 30% difference can you look at the 190 guys and say sorry bid for the bus hope you can hold it. That's my point man we need to watch that %
Like you said we all pick based on needs but I will never vote for a contract that screws a chunk of our pilots. From jr guys to rsv guy from 190 to the bus we need to make it work for everyone. So is there a % of pay between the bus and the 190 where you would say no? It's now 10% which you said has screwed things up.(3a and all) What if they say 30% difference can you look at the 190 guys and say sorry bid for the bus hope you can hold it. That's my point man we need to watch that %
How would the 190 guys be screwed over exactly? The CURRENT 190 rate would be almost exactly the same as the DL TA for the 195, greater than DL TA 190 rates, and the UA 190/195. Which would be the highest in the industry for that airframe. The only thing higher is the DL 717 TA rate. Right now, the 320 is about $40-60 below the rates for equivalent aircraft with our peers. This is all off the Comparison Guide (perhaps you've heard me reference this before).
Once again, I'm not campaigning to keep the 190 rates.....I'm just reading between the line based on the info our own union guys are sending out to us. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative. I hope like hell the 190 rates end up equal to or exceeding the DL 717 rates and our 320/321 rates equal or exceed DL's 320/321/737-900 rates.
Our own guys are managing expectations with these guides along with educating us. Getting defensive over someone interpreting data isn't going to change a damn thing.
12-01-2016, 05:02 PM
#2013
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,929
I wasn't specifically talking about YOU, Joe. There are a ton of guys sitting on the 190 for QOL. Guys who could hold a 320 CA line, albeit at a lower seniority and lower QOL. So if the pay gap increases, decisions will have to be made.
How would the 190 guys be screwed over exactly? The CURRENT 190 rate would be almost exactly the same as the DL TA for the 195, greater than DL TA 190 rates, and the UA 190/195. Which would be the highest in the industry for that airframe. The only thing higher is the DL 717 TA rate. Right now, the 320 is about $40-60 below the rates for equivalent aircraft with our peers. This is all off the Comparison Guide (perhaps you've heard me reference this before).
Once again, I'm not campaigning to keep the 190 rates.....I'm just reading between the line based on the info our own union guys are sending out to us. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative. I hope like hell the 190 rates end up equal to or exceeding the DL 717 rates and our 320/321 rates equal or exceed DL's 320/321/737-900 rates.
Our own guys are managing expectations with these guides along with educating us. Getting defensive over someone interpreting data isn't going to change a damn thing.
How would the 190 guys be screwed over exactly? The CURRENT 190 rate would be almost exactly the same as the DL TA for the 195, greater than DL TA 190 rates, and the UA 190/195. Which would be the highest in the industry for that airframe. The only thing higher is the DL 717 TA rate. Right now, the 320 is about $40-60 below the rates for equivalent aircraft with our peers. This is all off the Comparison Guide (perhaps you've heard me reference this before).
Once again, I'm not campaigning to keep the 190 rates.....I'm just reading between the line based on the info our own union guys are sending out to us. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative. I hope like hell the 190 rates end up equal to or exceeding the DL 717 rates and our 320/321 rates equal or exceed DL's 320/321/737-900 rates.
Our own guys are managing expectations with these guides along with educating us. Getting defensive over someone interpreting data isn't going to change a damn thing.
12-01-2016, 05:08 PM
#2014
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,929
I wasn't specifically talking about YOU, Joe. There are a ton of guys sitting on the 190 for QOL. Guys who could hold a 320 CA line, albeit at a lower seniority and lower QOL. So if the pay gap increases, decisions will have to be made.
How would the 190 guys be screwed over exactly? The CURRENT 190 rate would be almost exactly the same as the DL TA for the 195, greater than DL TA 190 rates, and the UA 190/195. Which would be the highest in the industry for that airframe. The only thing higher is the DL 717 TA rate. Right now, the 320 is about $40-60 below the rates for equivalent aircraft with our peers. This is all off the Comparison Guide (perhaps you've heard me reference this before).
Once again, I'm not campaigning to keep the 190 rates.....I'm just reading between the line based on the info our own union guys are sending out to us. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative. I hope like hell the 190 rates end up equal to or exceeding the DL 717 rates and our 320/321 rates equal or exceed DL's 320/321/737-900 rates.
Our own guys are managing expectations with these guides along with educating us. Getting defensive over someone interpreting data isn't going to change a damn thing.
How would the 190 guys be screwed over exactly? The CURRENT 190 rate would be almost exactly the same as the DL TA for the 195, greater than DL TA 190 rates, and the UA 190/195. Which would be the highest in the industry for that airframe. The only thing higher is the DL 717 TA rate. Right now, the 320 is about $40-60 below the rates for equivalent aircraft with our peers. This is all off the Comparison Guide (perhaps you've heard me reference this before).
Once again, I'm not campaigning to keep the 190 rates.....I'm just reading between the line based on the info our own union guys are sending out to us. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative. I hope like hell the 190 rates end up equal to or exceeding the DL 717 rates and our 320/321 rates equal or exceed DL's 320/321/737-900 rates.
Our own guys are managing expectations with these guides along with educating us. Getting defensive over someone interpreting data isn't going to change a damn thing.
Again and not to be "defensive"
It's not about the current rates it's about the % difference between the aircraft. You didn't answer my question. Are you fine with a 30% difference between the planes? How about 40 or 50 what is the max between the aircraft that you would be fine with? (a real question) That is what I am talking about when I say you are screwing over the 190 guys. But that's just my narrative talking.
I hope we will see soon and have something to vote on. It's time go JetBlue to get on it.
12-01-2016, 05:10 PM
#2015
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 992
You're falling for the company driven BS--comparing our planes with each other. You need to compare our airframes with our peers' similar airplanes and their rates. Tying our 320/321 rates with our 190 rates is a HUGE mistake.
12-01-2016, 05:48 PM
#2017
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Position: trying to get ahead
Posts: 73
I know I will get killed on here for saying it, but here goes. JetBlue makes x amount of dollars. Who cares who flies what? Lets break the ridiculous mold of majors and just pay one rate to fly airplanes here. It works for UPS and it's crazy to do it here in my opinion. Let the bullets fly.
12-01-2016, 06:52 PM
#2018
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: A220 CA
Posts: 607
I know I will get killed on here for saying it, but here goes. JetBlue makes x amount of dollars. Who cares who flies what? Lets break the ridiculous mold of majors and just pay one rate to fly airplanes here. It works for UPS and it's crazy to do it here in my opinion. Let the bullets fly.
(maybe i don't know how the internet works?)
12-01-2016, 06:52 PM
#2019
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
JetBlue Latest and Greatest
I know I will get killed on here for saying it, but here goes. JetBlue makes x amount of dollars. Who cares who flies what? Lets break the ridiculous mold of majors and just pay one rate to fly airplanes here. It works for UPS and it's crazy to do it here in my opinion. Let the bullets fly.
I agree. It would be a win-win. The pilots get a good rate to fly all aircraft, and don't have to jockey for position to get the higher pay. The company gets to not have as many training cycles, as people are more likely to stay on their fleet. As it has been said above, the 717 rate is slightly below 320, and the 321 is slightly above 320. Make it the same.
The fly in the ointment will be wide-bodies. I do agree in splitting out that (future) fleet as it is a whole other animal.
What we should do (if we were really smart) is set up pay based on seat ranges, not aircraft types. If we had a 100-125 seat rate, a 125-175 seat rate, and a 175 to 225 seat rate no one would argue that the 100-125 rate should be left behind. Unfortunately too many people are stuck on the "ERJ" in the type and feel superior to it, and don't care what happens to it as a result.
12-01-2016, 07:03 PM
#2020
Guest
Posts: n/a
I know I will get killed on here for saying it, but here goes. JetBlue makes x amount of dollars. Who cares who flies what? Lets break the ridiculous mold of majors and just pay one rate to fly airplanes here. It works for UPS and it's crazy to do it here in my opinion. Let the bullets fly.
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