ForeverWaiting

As the paragraph below straight from Wikipedia shows, just 10 years ago things were not all that rosy in ATL. How many years does it take to recover from a 46.5% pay cut? Assuming you were not caught up in the furlough that is..

In 2005, Delta accelerated its restructuring, targeting an additional $3 billion per year in cost reductions by 2007. Of that, $970 million was to come from debt relief, lease and facility savings, and previously commenced fleet modifications. Non-union workers' salaries were to be reduced by a minimum of 9% across the board, with a 15% reduction for executive officers and a 25% pay cut for CEO Gerald Grinstein. In December 2005, the Delta pilots agreed to an additional temporary 14% cut in pay, piggybacking onto the 32.5% taken at the beginning of 2005. This cut was made permanent with the ratification of an agreement in June 2006. Additionally, the company planned to lay off between 7,000 and 9,000 of its 52,000 employees.

WhiteHammer

I had a summer vacation 3/4 years I was an FO. The first I was not able to bid. Part of the issue with summer vacations is senior dudes getting to pick all 6 of theirs before letting the next guy go. But I guess Delta guys get summer vacations in year 1 and 2...

Std Deviation

We're not Delta. Never will be unless they buy us. That's the reality. Do we have their market cap? Pilot numbers? Route structure? No. Do we deserve more? Absolutely. We have to fight our own battles in the reality that we live in and quit making moot comparisons. But.... Mike Tyson made millions and I work for free in my amateur boxing league. Yep. Become Tyson get Tyson money. If we wanted to work at Delta, they're hiring. Let's be realistic about the situation that our own career choices have placed us in. CAs here gross in the top 10% of income earners in the US. Let's keep things in perspective. If you find yourself in DFW the week of Thankgiving roll on by and you can help dole out turkey to homeless veterans with me. Enlightening. I hope I never get to the point in my life when $100 is not a lot of money. Again, we deserve more for what we do. However, when we hear hoof prints we need to think horses not unicorns.

BlueJetDork

They changed the name but the effect is still the same. The first 5% of your Profit Sharing is reduced to fund the 5% of what you say is "doesn't matter what its called".

Take 2012 for instance, Jetblue paid 0.42% of an employees eligible earnings as profit sharing plus 13% into a pilot retirement (assuming the pilot elected to defer at least 5% of their own income).

However, 15% of EBT divided by eligible wages in 2012 resulted in 5.42% payout that was in fact reduced by the "cliff" to 0.42%.

Yeah we got 8% + 5% (13%) retirement and profit sharing but it should have been yeah we got 13% plus 5.42% profit sharing in 2012 and 8.02% in 2013 and 20.87% last year.

The same thing happened in 2007 - 2015.

BlueJetDork

Your personal system is not scaleable for the entire pilot group. DALPA, SWAPA and others are because allocation, distribution and PTS and call in well and scheduling and bidding are contractual minimums.

Jetblue's system is a pure scam that leaves 95% of the pilot group left out.

BTW, DALPA has moved to further to strengthen the standard system which means they have moved further away from the Jetblue scam system.

Rock177

He said this place has become a joke and you projected onto him that he was unhappy here and should leave.

The company's hired labor consultants specifically look to gauge the attitude of the pilot group wrt how far they can push the takeaways and what they can get away with. They are not finished implementing their wishlist of changes upon us and the attitude you display on a public message board towards your fellow pilots that 'you better be happy to be here, or leave' emboldens the company to push their changes through, and it erodes our unity in achieving our objective. An objective that you say you support.

Do you actually think a guy in the top 20% of the 5th largest major in the industry, that has to this point enjoyed a job mostly on par with the Big 4, should have to throw in the towel and go start over at the bottom in order to finally achieve the job conditions he should expect out of his career? I do not, and I trust you do not either. My feeling is that we should band together, stick in for the fight and make this place on par with the Big 4.

I don't know what your aversion is to hearing guys complain about where we are finding ourselves relative to our peers these days. I would just ask that you learn to become more tolerant of other pilot's dissenting attitudes because at the heart of it is usually a desire to improve our collective situation. Things are going to get worse before they get better and our unity is going to be put to the test before we achieve what we are looking for.

Sorry for the longwindedness...

WhiteHammer

Your right. Last year we got 15.87 profit sharing check, and the 5% retirement plus is also profit sharing. I thought it was separated into 2 different things, I thought wrong. That sucks.

BlueJetDork

Yes it does.

Our system seems simple but is very convoluted to make comparisons difficult.

BlueJetDork

Alaska has always mirrored DALPA rates. What is next when that happens? We are not Alaska?

We have a 21% operating margin to DAL's 19%.

We will do fine and the corporation will thrive with DALPA narrow body rates and conditions of service. Why? DAL used BK to clean up its books and Jetblue used our QOL and the DR to the same affect.

Our debt service (lack thereof) is a strategic advantage.

CaptCoolHand

Bluejetdork gets it.