DEM1933

https://seekingalpha.com/news/388318...-airlines-deal

Boomer

The NEA has no expiration. It continues in five year terms until both parties agree to disband it.

Unless you mean the non-binding LOA17 part that says it ends in 2030 unless ALPA agrees to let it continue.

I say non-binding, because we just saw how ALPA is unwilling to take NEA arbitration to the last inning. Rather that force the company to follow the contract, they’ll puff their chests out and bluster for a year, then at the last minute fold for whatever chump change the company is offering.

”We don’t know if we’ve got a good case. Arbitration could go either way… better take the last best offer.”

Anyone thinking that the NEA suddenly ends in 2030 “because ALPA says so” hasn’t been paying attention.

Boomer

Either my reading comprehension sucks, or that headline is misleading.

The headline says JetBlue is more committed to the Spirit deal than the NEA deal.

Then the article says we’re still equally committed to both.

H60 DUSTOFF

Maybe I'm missing something but if NK is to be acquired, why would NK give a sh!t about the NEA?

I was inverted

Pretty sure the auto renewal of the agreement occurs after first 5 year term occurs unless both parties mutually agree to walk away at that point. If only one wants out, tough ship. But at the 10 year mark, or end of the 2nd term, if one wants out, they can. Hence my referenced 10 year point in time, which if I’m not mistaken is why LOA17 has that timeframe as well. I think it’s assumed that (pending litigation of course) the agreement will auto renew after the first term, because the stakes/costs are too high for either airline to walk away before then. But maybe I misread something somewhere.

MainlineFlyer

I'm starting to think B6ALPA has been corrupted. The company is losing pilots left and right, and instead of pressing our advantage the union gives them an out. An extention to our current contract let's the company off the hook (again) when they are actively sending our QOL to the toilet with these pairings.

I think B6ALPA has been bought. It just happens way too often to be something else.

Bgood

I do agree that we will **** away a little leverage by extending the contract with higher payrates.

But then I ask the question, will we get a comprehensive and significantly improved contract before we have to start negotiating for a JCBA? Past negotiations timing says we won't. So I see this as bitting at the apple twice. Yes we probably will **** away some leverage, but a JCBA comes with it's own big leverage for significant improvements. If we should continue to try to get a comprehensive contract, we would end up with nothing for 2 years then the ball game changes when its JCBA time. So 2 yrs of wasting negotiating capital for nothing.

If merger doesn't happen, we go back into negotiations when extension expires. At that time we will still have attrition problems because legacies will still be hiring in droves.

In your opinion, if we should stay on the comprehensive contract route, how long do you think, REALISTICALLY, it would take for us to get a significantly improved CBA?

MainlineFlyer

It takes as long as it takes. When the pain threshold is high enough the company will come to US not the other way around. All we have to do us stand firm and be willing to walk. Its that easy.

While it seems like you are leaving money on the table by waiting, the truth is that with retro, an entire career at an airline with a real CBA is long term the better option. It sucks that we would have to turn the screws on the company, but they have shown that its the only way to get what we are worth.

avi8orco

And there in lies your problem. When this pilot group is given instruction to turn the screws a few do, most don’t. While I and several hundred were walking around HQ freezing our nuts off holding signs, the usual suspects are running over each other for RSAs/VDAs. When the operation runs and the metal moves, why change anything?

Bgood

I get what you're saying. My thing is, what a waste of time trying to negotiate for 2 years just to start over negotiations with JCBA. Might as well just pack up and wait. I would be all for a comprehensive contract (kinda still am) IF:

1. I know the probability was high that we would get it within 2 years.

2. There wasn't a merger on the table with someone else.

3. We would have very little leverage while negotiating JCBA.


You mentioned retro/signing bonus, but it probably wouldn't pay as high as the sum each individual person would make, with a much higher payrate, within that 2 year period.

This is what I see as WORST case scenario:

We have the same crappy QOL while negotiating for years

Or

We have the same crappy QOL with higher pay until we start with JCBA and get a more comprehensive CBA. Of course I would definitely hope for some QOL improvements in the extension, but again *worst case*

Disclaimer: I talk like this now, but if the extension offer is not significant then call me viagra cause I'm a hard no