Bluedriver

I would never want to bore you. 😂

ny797

From the outside looking in it seems like JB management has no leg to stand on, other then a corrupt judge, when it comes to this grievance. Is that the consensus over there or is there talk of re-entering negotiations? I hope you guys take their asses to court and shut them down.

todd1200

Our mgmt. is definitely signaling that they want to go straight to arbitration, but who knows how genuine that is. They probably recognize the implications that their coming back to the table would have on Section 6 negotiations in a couple years, but I’d have to imagine the risk of a judge ruling in our favor outweighs their desire to appear strong at the table. My personal guess is they’ll come up with a new TA at the 11th hour, but I wouldn’t mind it going in front of the arbitrator, especially after they dismissed our collective voice in the process.

As of now, arbitration is scheduled to start on May 11.

Bluedriver

Think of it this way, there is no negotiations possible (because of the rejection of the TA and the pilots frustration with the MEC actions until now) until a union survey is complete, the data is crunched, and the MEC has met to decide on a "ask". Until all of that is complete, the company knows there is no negotiating, so in the mean time they are putting up a tough front to get pilots expectations down, and get guys thinking they'd be "lucky if the company comes back to renegotiate"...

Ultimately the contract scope language isn't on the company's side, but they have a free pass until at least May 11th. But... They can't possibly put themselves in a position to get a cease and desist order, so they will have to reengage well before May 11th.

That is my opinion.

RiddleEagle18

And we can still say No again to selling out scope.

Imagine a pilot group actually holding the line and not giving away flying.


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copy

What growth did LOA13 provide that LOA12 doesn’t?

Bumping again. Seekingblue, other yes voters...anyone care to answer? “Allowing JetBlue to grow” has been the #1 reason I’ve gotten from the union, the company, and yes voters in real life. But...how does 13 allow more growth for JetBlue than 12? When I ask this question to them in real life, none of them seem to be able to articulate an answer. Nobody can tell me how allowing AA/AE to do 100% of the FC to international, 35% Caribbean, and 35% FC to FC allows JetBlue to grow more than current status quo prohibiting that flying in a codeshare IAW our CBA.

Also, no one has been able to answer how the revenue sharing portion of the NEA that would have been allowed by LOA13, but disallowed by the CBA, is beneficial to the pilot group. How is giving away JetBlue revenue a good thing for us? We do more flying, we generate more revenue, we give a share of that revenue up. We do less flying, generate less revenue, but get more revenue in exchange for AA/AE doing that flying. Neither scenario seems great for the pilot group. So, what am I missing about the revenue sharing portion?

So, for Seekingblue, I think you said you’re minimizing your forum time, so I’ll bump it again in case you missed it the last 2 times I asked. Any other yes voter feel free to enlighten me too. I truly want to hear a decent answer to that original question. I’ve been asking my reps since this came out for an answer and they can’t give it to me, yet they all still voted yes (and cited JB growth opportunity as their number one reason). Chief pilot I discussed it with? No answer to it. Every yes voter I’ve talked to in real life (surprised there are any) also can’t seem to answer it. Hopefully one of the yes voters here like Seekingblue can.

todd1200

Copy, I voted No, but in terms of the revenue sharing, my understanding is that relief was in order to allow participation in the Mutual Growth Incentive Agreement, where a portion of the revenue earned through the NEA went into a kind of escrow and was later given to JB and AA if they hit certain growth metrics. I can’t remember for sure, but I think it has to do with each airline increasing the number of flights to cities included in the NEA. That incentivized growth seemed like a good deal for the pilots to me.

A145

I was a no voter but if you like the NEA as it’s been sold you need to have most of the relief LOA13 provides. If AA wants us to feed international flying out of NYC and Boston, we need to be able to put our code on AA international flights. Some destinations (Tel Aviv) won’t require relief to do that but as soon as we get an LR, everything in Western Europe and much of South America will. Without that, what’s the incentive for AA to partner? That 100% / 0% split is scary but my understanding is none of our planned Europe flying is included in the NEA and thus there’s nothing for AA to put their code on. How can it be anything but 100%?

I think the argument for the Caribbean limits and focus city to focus city flying is shakier from our perspective but it’s easy to see why increasing frequencies without costs would be appealing for both companies. Was the NEA possible without those provisions? I obviously can’t say. It seems we likely have more to gain but too much is based on trust.

When it comes down to it, I don’t think arguing LOA 12 vs LOA 13 is relevant. It’s growth with the NEA versus without it.

Wounded Duck

I can answer your question about how LOA 13 allows more growth then LOA 12. It's a simple matter of perspective. You have to understand growth for Jetblue and growth for Jetplue pilots are two different things. With LOA 12 the only way for jetblue to grow (increase flights) is if those flights are done by Jetblue pilots. With LOA 13 Jetblue would have been able to grow by simply putting their code on flights operated by American or American affiliates. LOA 13 would have tremendously increased growth for Jetblue (the company) which is what they were selling. Seekingblue and others like him thought they were Jetblue and didn't understand they are just Jetblue pilots. They assume what's great for Jetblue is great for them. It would be great for Jetblue if the pilots took a 50% pay cut but not so much for the pilots. To put it more relevantly; it would be great for Jetblue if they could outsource our flying, not so much for the pilots.

Halon1211

I’m with another airline and just curious.

I understand you guys had a vote to go along with the joint venture with AA out of the northeast and voted it down. So Is the company trying to violate y’alls CBA and go forward anyways?

That’s what I have gather from the news and reading here. Thanks for the help.