JetBlue Latest and Greatest
01-30-2021, 08:21 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 324
They also use the word "temporary" a lot.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
They also tout the ability to shut it down if the company misuses its new powers. They don't say that they only have one opportunity to do so, in 2025, and that it can continue for another 2 years beyond regardless. So the company can miss all of its targets and can run right over us for the next 7 years. Furlough, shift flying to Eagle, whatever. And we can't do anything except not allow them to renew it. Provided we haven't given away that ability by 2025 as well.
The more I look at this the worse it sucks, and the union guys aren't making it look any better. Why are they satisfied with this?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
They also tout the ability to shut it down if the company misuses its new powers. They don't say that they only have one opportunity to do so, in 2025, and that it can continue for another 2 years beyond regardless. So the company can miss all of its targets and can run right over us for the next 7 years. Furlough, shift flying to Eagle, whatever. And we can't do anything except not allow them to renew it. Provided we haven't given away that ability by 2025 as well.
The more I look at this the worse it sucks, and the union guys aren't making it look any better. Why are they satisfied with this?
01-30-2021, 08:30 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,005
Honest question: if this thing gets voted down, how do we recall these guys if we so choose? Im not saying I’m all the way there yet, but I’m close. Would this take a considerable amount of time? Is anyone familiar with this recall process? I’ve never seen it happen anywhere I’ve worked.
01-30-2021, 09:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,536
They also use the word "temporary" a lot.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
They also tout the ability to shut it down if the company misuses its new powers. They don't say that they only have one opportunity to do so, in 2025, and that it can continue for another 2 years beyond regardless. So the company can miss all of its targets and can run right over us for the next 7 years. Furlough, shift flying to Eagle, whatever. And we can't do anything except not allow them to renew it. Provided we haven't given away that ability by 2025 as well.
The more I look at this the worse it sucks, and the union guys aren't making it look any better. Why are they satisfied with this?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
They also tout the ability to shut it down if the company misuses its new powers. They don't say that they only have one opportunity to do so, in 2025, and that it can continue for another 2 years beyond regardless. So the company can miss all of its targets and can run right over us for the next 7 years. Furlough, shift flying to Eagle, whatever. And we can't do anything except not allow them to renew it. Provided we haven't given away that ability by 2025 as well.
The more I look at this the worse it sucks, and the union guys aren't making it look any better. Why are they satisfied with this?
In the airline business, 10 years isn’t temporary, it’s forever.
And they make it sound like we should give this new scope a try, and if it doesn’t work we can pull out. On the contrary, whatever happens to Jetblue in the next seven years won’t be “undone” or reset by the MEC vetoing the renewal in 2025.
I’ve been at an airline where the company came to us for a give-back with a two-year “compliance window” on their end. Management broke their end of the deal in the second month, and ALPA said “we sure didn’t see that coming”. Two years is plenty of time for the company to manipulate the contract, and they avoided all the penalties for non-compliance. So five years is a hard no.
01-31-2021, 04:41 AM
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,323
They also use the word "temporary" a lot.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
They also tout the ability to shut it down if the company misuses its new powers. They don't say that they only have one opportunity to do so, in 2025, and that it can continue for another 2 years beyond regardless. So the company can miss all of its targets and can run right over us for the next 7 years. Furlough, shift flying to Eagle, whatever. And we can't do anything except not allow them to renew it. Provided we haven't given away that ability by 2025 as well.
The more I look at this the worse it sucks, and the union guys aren't making it look any better. Why are they satisfied with this?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
They also tout the ability to shut it down if the company misuses its new powers. They don't say that they only have one opportunity to do so, in 2025, and that it can continue for another 2 years beyond regardless. So the company can miss all of its targets and can run right over us for the next 7 years. Furlough, shift flying to Eagle, whatever. And we can't do anything except not allow them to renew it. Provided we haven't given away that ability by 2025 as well.
The more I look at this the worse it sucks, and the union guys aren't making it look any better. Why are they satisfied with this?
Literally the EXACT same things that I was thinking!! I kept cringing at "temporary", and thought the same about the "shutting it off"..... seven years later. After the merger.
01-31-2021, 05:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 780
5 years ... with a 24 month spool down. Seems like a long time for how “nimble” we are to spool down. Also notice how ALPA only uses the term “months” for the spool down... instead of “years”? Why not just say, a two year wind down. Hmm maybe because years sounds a lot longer that using months?
Also, why do they keep using Silver and Cape Air as their examples of what this LOA will be like... oh you mean like JFK-HYA seasonal runs with 7 seater prop planes????? Is that kind of like Americans 787-900’s with the capability to reach the other side of the planet? K.
Also, ok so 65% is ASM is the floor they keep saying, that’s just a tick up from 50/50. You can bet just like the scheduling section nightmare when ALPA said, “why would they do that” “it doesnt make sense” “no way that will happen”. Then guess what happened? EVERY market that is above 65% will be adjusted to the minimum 65% and the rest farmed out to AA or AA feeder. Let me say this one more time.... FIVE YEARS WITH A TWO YEAR WIND DOWN, for 2% at a MINIMUM.
Also, why do they keep using Silver and Cape Air as their examples of what this LOA will be like... oh you mean like JFK-HYA seasonal runs with 7 seater prop planes????? Is that kind of like Americans 787-900’s with the capability to reach the other side of the planet? K.
Also, ok so 65% is ASM is the floor they keep saying, that’s just a tick up from 50/50. You can bet just like the scheduling section nightmare when ALPA said, “why would they do that” “it doesnt make sense” “no way that will happen”. Then guess what happened? EVERY market that is above 65% will be adjusted to the minimum 65% and the rest farmed out to AA or AA feeder. Let me say this one more time.... FIVE YEARS WITH A TWO YEAR WIND DOWN, for 2% at a MINIMUM.
01-31-2021, 05:27 AM
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 2
Also, ok so 65% is ASM is the floor they keep saying, that’s just a tick up from 50/50. You can bet just like the scheduling section nightmare when ALPA said, “why would they do that” “it doesnt make sense” “no way that will happen”. Then guess what happened? EVERY market that is above 65% will be adjusted to the minimum 65% and the rest farmed out to AA or AA feeder. Let me say this one more time.... FIVE YEARS WITH A TWO YEAR WIND DOWN, for 2% at a MINIMUM.
01-31-2021, 06:19 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 15
LOA 13 provides no protection. Assuming those routes touch the northeast and are not blue city to blue city, they can codeshare without limit per the CBA and LOA 12. The DOT agreement does require us to keep basic service just about everywhere.
01-31-2021, 06:26 AM
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
The 65% hub to hub, is that 65% of each hub to hub route? Or 65% averaged between all the hub to hub routes?
Same with hub to Caribbean, if it's a Caribbean average, JB just does 35 flights a day to SDQ and AA does all the other islands. Still 65% average to the Caribbean.
Same with hub to Caribbean, if it's a Caribbean average, JB just does 35 flights a day to SDQ and AA does all the other islands. Still 65% average to the Caribbean.
01-31-2021, 06:30 AM
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
The 65% restriction is on Focus city to Focus city. Those are the cities JB designates as Focus cities or where they have crew bases (BOS/JFK/LAX/MCO/FLL/SJU/SDQ/STI(can't remember if they designate DCA)).
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