Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Wounded Duck,


And how do you KNOW that if you pick up a 15 hour trip as a line holder you won't get paid 15 additional hours? Seems like you are reading tea leaves and coming to a conclusion that might very well be incorrect.


I doubt VERY much the union would vote unanimously to approve an agreement that cuts lineholders ability to get paid from open time.


I think you need to wait for language and Q&A before you make such sweeping assumptions.


And I do not see a 2022 COLA increase as a contract extension. The contract becomes amendable on the same date as previously, and negotiations will begin. There is nothing in section 6 or precedent that says X many months from last COLA.

Originally Posted by leavemealone

TLV per the CBA is 77-84. They can’t do that. Not enough flying. I believe that is the relief they are talking about. All flying picked up will go on top of guarantee as usual. I can’t imagine a world that airlines don’t furlough when revenue is below 40% for a year. Not saying I’m not in that world but B6’s furlough costs are a lot less than the big guys because we only have two fleets. They could easily chop 1000 guys and bring 100-300 a year as needed. They could run the operation with less than 2000 pilots right now. If they chop 1000 then a large percentage of the pilot groups QOL and pay will go to *******. If you’ve been bidding at 30%, you will now be closer to 60%. Just because your not up for furlough doesn’t mean you aren’t screwed. Had a buddy at AA. Was about 200 from furlough but missed it and was commuting to SCR for 8 years on the MD. Something to consider. And now he’s screwed again. Will probably lose the left seat now and they are contracting flying out to us. WE STINK AGAIN! Keeping the pilot group intact benefits at least 70%.

Originally Posted by Wounded Duck

I could be wrong and I hope I am. I went to LOA 12.B ALV/TLV and read through it as if everything referring to TLV remained the same and everything referring to ALV was removed. It is complicated and subject to interpretation. When the final language comes out they are going to have to give us some real examples. If I am wrong I'll most likely vote yes.


The bullet points make the scope relief seem insignificant. Like it's just expanding on the AA deal we already signed. If it's just firming up the agreement we already have and increasing our flying then that's fine with me. When we see the final language we'll know what it all is. If I'm wrong about how ALV will effect us and scope is as expected they can have my vote, no problem.

Originally Posted by Wounded Duck

I do agree with you on the deep ramifications of furlough across the whole pilot group. I would defiantly feel the pain if they did furlough. I also see JB losing money Q1 & Q2 overall but I see them back to making a profit by Q3 and overall profitable for 2021. It's just not a recipe for furlough. They want everything spooled up to quickly take advantage of the changing market. They are placing their bets on a Q3 comeback and if it doesn't happen they left themselves an October 1st out anyway.

Originally Posted by Steelers

25.I.1 say AVL will be between 74 and 86. So if there is no relief on AVL we will have minium of 74 hour lines. I imagine it would be like LOA 12 where 50 hours will pay 74.

Originally Posted by Clear Right

If you are correct, it’s a gain of 4hrs for most and a gain of 5hrs for reserves? The difference being, no more free lunch between 50 and 74 in your scenario of “50 pays 74”. If interpreting correctly?

Which would mean reserves might have to fly (vs-Sim @ 90), and the pick-up flyer’s will need to be over 74 to make more money.

Sounds like they are just spreading flying out across entire group? Probably why it passed 14-0. Peanut butter spread and no furloughs, keeps everyone happy. Speculation of course, need to read details.

Originally Posted by Clear Right

If you are correct, it’s a gain of 4hrs for most and a gain of 5hrs for reserves? The difference being, no more free lunch between 50 and 74 in your scenario of “50 pays 74”. If interpreting correctly?

Which would mean reserves might have to fly (vs-Sim @ 90), and the pick-up flyer’s will need to be over 74 to make more money.

Sounds like they are just spreading flying out across entire group? Probably why it passed 14-0. Peanut butter spread and no furloughs, keeps everyone happy. Speculation of course, need to read details.

Originally Posted by Wounded Duck

When I first looked at the bullet points I thought this might be a good deal. The more I looked at them and dug into what they mean the less I liked it. Disagree with me if you want, especially after the final language comes out but after taking some time to digest it this is how I see it.

1) 6, 9, 12, 24 month Extended Incentive Lines at 55 hours. Not enough credit for me to care....

Originally Posted by Forgotmywallet

At 60 I’d bug out for 2 years. I’d do the A and P program at my local community college. Not bad at $64 a credit hour. Primarily to wrench on my own stuff. I did a VIL in summer at 50 when I could have sat LCR and gotten 75. Lesson learned. Haven’t been used since March. 190/CA JFK. Did a sim requal in summer, then dequaled again in Oct and they told me no sim slots until 2021. Enjoy nov and dec off (lineholder both months).

Originally Posted by Forgotmywallet

At 60 I’d bug out for 2 years. I’d do the A and P program at my local community college. Not bad at $64 a credit hour. Primarily to wrench on my own stuff. I did a VIL in summer at 50 when I could have sat LCR and gotten 75. Lesson learned. Haven’t been used since March. 190/CA JFK. Did a sim requal in summer, then dequaled again in Oct and they told me no sim slots until 2021. Enjoy nov and dec off (lineholder both months).