jetBlue Hiring
03-30-2017, 10:18 AM
#9831
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,931
+ 1
All this hit me like a ton of bricks when I hit the line. It would have been nice to know going in, so I could have managed my expectations a little bit. Still happy to be here, but anybody looking to make the final jump will be disappointed that they have to keep updating their apps.
One other thing here is, Dispatch, MX and scheduling here are an absolute clown show. Nothing different than my regional, if not worse. I expected a little more knowledge and professionalism, especially from dispatchers. Most of the time it's amateur hour having to dodge error after error with paperwork and MEL's. Honestly, I never had so many paperwork and MX mistakes in almost a decade at the regionals than I have had here in a year. Just something to think about when making a career decision.
All this hit me like a ton of bricks when I hit the line. It would have been nice to know going in, so I could have managed my expectations a little bit. Still happy to be here, but anybody looking to make the final jump will be disappointed that they have to keep updating their apps.
One other thing here is, Dispatch, MX and scheduling here are an absolute clown show. Nothing different than my regional, if not worse. I expected a little more knowledge and professionalism, especially from dispatchers. Most of the time it's amateur hour having to dodge error after error with paperwork and MEL's. Honestly, I never had so many paperwork and MX mistakes in almost a decade at the regionals than I have had here in a year. Just something to think about when making a career decision.
But I don't understand how you guys missed this? In my 5 years here we had our healthcare changed, or "peer group" changed so they didn't have to pay us more, our premium pay trigger removed and a huge (until VA) record yes vote for a union. Again not trying to be rude but what were you guys looking at? I know I defend the company on stuff like planes and crap like that but why would you ever trust management?
Look things will get better but this is nothing new at JetBlue it is a tier 2 airline right now and most likely will be for a long time. Things worked because either nobody else was hiring or you could grab a fast upgrade and the majors were in trouble. Times have completely changed and will again a few more times during our careers but I don't think you can blame the "blue juice" for not knowing what was going on here. Heck I remember about 10 years ago thinking one of the NC members was crazy to go to JetBlue because how bad the 190 pay was. That was 10 years ago.
It's fine that you guys are trying to educate people so they are not fooled like you were but you also need to watch what you complain about like the lodge policy was made to punish guys for the union vote. It's like reading infowars people will just block that and not trust what you are saying. Just present the facts, they are on your side.
I think one other thing is we all sit at the regionals and dream of going to a major where they don't have the same problems, we get there and bam it's just another freaking airline. I have friends (yes shocking I know) at almost every major and while they love the cba or the pay it's still an airline with the same problems as every other one. They all have melt downs they all have evil crew schedulers and so on. What saves them is a cba which does not give the company the room to screw with them as ours does. That will soon be fixed here.
Since I took Latin and not Spanish I will leave you with.
Caveat emptor
03-30-2017, 10:32 AM
#9832
Not A Janitor
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
But I don't understand how you guys missed this? In my 5 years here we had our healthcare changed, or "peer group" changed so they didn't have to pay us more, our premium pay trigger removed and a huge (until VA) record yes vote for a union. Again not trying to be rude but what were you guys looking at? I know I defend the company on stuff like planes and crap like that but why would you ever trust management?
Look things will get better but this is nothing new at JetBlue it is a tier 2 airline right now and most likely will be for a long time. Things worked because either nobody else was hiring or you could grab a fast upgrade and the majors were in trouble. Times have completely changed and will again a few more times during our careers but I don't think you can blame the "blue juice" for not knowing what was going on here. Heck I remember about 10 years ago thinking one of the NC members was crazy to go to JetBlue because how bad the 190 pay was. That was 10 years ago.
It's fine that you guys are trying to educate people so they are not fooled like you were but you also need to watch what you complain about like the lodge policy was made to punish guys for the union vote. It's like reading infowars people will just block that and not trust what you are saying. Just present the facts, they are on your side.
I think one other thing is we all sit at the regionals and dream of going to a major where they don't have the same problems, we get there and bam it's just another freaking airline. I have friends (yes shocking I know) at almost every major and while they love the cba or the pay it's still an airline with the same problems as every other one. They all have melt downs they all have evil crew schedulers and so on. What saves them is a cba which does not give the company the room to screw with them as ours does. That will soon be fixed here.
Since I took Latin and not Spanish I will leave you with.
Caveat emptor
Look things will get better but this is nothing new at JetBlue it is a tier 2 airline right now and most likely will be for a long time. Things worked because either nobody else was hiring or you could grab a fast upgrade and the majors were in trouble. Times have completely changed and will again a few more times during our careers but I don't think you can blame the "blue juice" for not knowing what was going on here. Heck I remember about 10 years ago thinking one of the NC members was crazy to go to JetBlue because how bad the 190 pay was. That was 10 years ago.
It's fine that you guys are trying to educate people so they are not fooled like you were but you also need to watch what you complain about like the lodge policy was made to punish guys for the union vote. It's like reading infowars people will just block that and not trust what you are saying. Just present the facts, they are on your side.
I think one other thing is we all sit at the regionals and dream of going to a major where they don't have the same problems, we get there and bam it's just another freaking airline. I have friends (yes shocking I know) at almost every major and while they love the cba or the pay it's still an airline with the same problems as every other one. They all have melt downs they all have evil crew schedulers and so on. What saves them is a cba which does not give the company the room to screw with them as ours does. That will soon be fixed here.
Since I took Latin and not Spanish I will leave you with.
Caveat emptor
Look, I came here knowing we were in negotiations and there was a long way to go. I understood the work rules weren't the best. I read up on the "benefits." But you can't FULLY comprehend how bad the work rules are until you experience them yourself. It's astounding how poor the work rules are here.
I came here optimistic that we'd negotiate a solid industry leading contract, and I still expect that. I didn't expect that working conditions would devolve on a monthly basis right from the start. Thank you for the lecture, however. I'm sure that gave the readers at LSC and OSC the warm and fuzzies.
And yes, I'm also aware every other airline has issues. I was aware of the constant IROP debacles here. I'm also aware maintenance has taken a SERIOUS turn for the worse here in the past four months or so (which honestly deserves a thread of its own). Instead of rationalizing, we should strive to be better.
Honestly I'm just floored at how quickly things keep getting worse here. Very hopeful this ship gets turned around ASAP because I'd rather not leave.
03-30-2017, 10:41 AM
#9833
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,931
I had high hopes when I saw a long thought out post from you... but then I read your rationalization that this is a tier two airline so really we should just manage our expectations. Really??
Look, I came here knowing we were in negotiations and there was a long way to go. I understood the work rules weren't the best. I read up on the "benefits." But you can't FULLY comprehend how bad the work rules are until you experience them yourself. It's astounding how poor the work rules are here.
I came here optimistic that we'd negotiate a solid industry leading contract, and I still expect that. I didn't expect that working conditions would devolve on a monthly basis right from the start. Thank you for the lecture, however. I'm sure that gave the readers at LSC and OSC the warm and fuzzies.
And yes, I'm also aware every other airline has issues. I was aware of the constant IROP debacles here. I'm also aware maintenance has taken a SERIOUS turn for the worse here in the past four months or so (which honestly deserves a thread of its own). Instead of rationalizing, we should strive to be better.
Honestly I'm just floored at how quickly things keep getting worse here. Very hopeful this ship gets turned around ASAP because I'd rather not leave.
Look, I came here knowing we were in negotiations and there was a long way to go. I understood the work rules weren't the best. I read up on the "benefits." But you can't FULLY comprehend how bad the work rules are until you experience them yourself. It's astounding how poor the work rules are here.
I came here optimistic that we'd negotiate a solid industry leading contract, and I still expect that. I didn't expect that working conditions would devolve on a monthly basis right from the start. Thank you for the lecture, however. I'm sure that gave the readers at LSC and OSC the warm and fuzzies.
And yes, I'm also aware every other airline has issues. I was aware of the constant IROP debacles here. I'm also aware maintenance has taken a SERIOUS turn for the worse here in the past four months or so (which honestly deserves a thread of its own). Instead of rationalizing, we should strive to be better.
Honestly I'm just floored at how quickly things keep getting worse here. Very hopeful this ship gets turned around ASAP because I'd rather not leave.
No I didn't say manage your expectations I said know what you are getting into. You say you didn't expect working conditions to devolve on a monthly basis but I just pointed out that they have been trending that way since I have been here. When I say tier 2 (I am not talking pay)unless things really change I don't see us buying huge fleets of 777s or being able to fly all around the world. We don't have a massive retirement wave and so on. I assume we will have an industry competive cba with really good stuff in it but we will never be the size or have the route networks of the big guys any time soon. So to me that is a tier 2 airline.
It's not a lecture so much as guys that are very new here suddenly shocked and blaming management because they trusted them.
Dude it's like any social experiment we are all equal until we are not
Heck go read animal farm
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others
Welcome to JetBlue
I'm just saying that history would have told you what you just discovered. That in the end it's all talking points and BS. Does that make it right.....no should it be better.....yes but right now that is what it is and why we (as you know)are fighting for a great first contract.
Last edited by pilotpayne; 03-30-2017 at 10:59 AM.
03-30-2017, 03:07 PM
#9834
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Blue fifi flogger
Posts: 739
No I didn't say manage your expectations I said know what you are getting into. You say you didn't expect working conditions to devolve on a monthly basis but I just pointed out that they have been trending that way since I have been here. When I say tier 2 (I am not talking pay)unless things really change I don't see us buying huge fleets of 777s or being able to fly all around the world. We don't have a massive retirement wave and so on. I assume we will have an industry competive cba with really good stuff in it but we will never be the size or have the route networks of the big guys any time soon. So to me that is a tier 2 airline.
It's not a lecture so much as guys that are very new here suddenly shocked and blaming management because they trusted them.
Dude it's like any social experiment we are all equal until we are not
Heck go read animal farm
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others
Welcome to JetBlue
I'm just saying that history would have told you what you just discovered. That in the end it's all talking points and BS. Does that make it right.....no should it be better.....yes but right now that is what it is and why we (as you know)are fighting for a great first contract.
It's not a lecture so much as guys that are very new here suddenly shocked and blaming management because they trusted them.
Dude it's like any social experiment we are all equal until we are not
Heck go read animal farm
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others
Welcome to JetBlue
I'm just saying that history would have told you what you just discovered. That in the end it's all talking points and BS. Does that make it right.....no should it be better.....yes but right now that is what it is and why we (as you know)are fighting for a great first contract.
Guys come here from a regional, and the word is probably out at this point that we have subpar benefits, zero work rules, and hotel quality that is mixed to be generous.
The incompetence in LSC and its effect on what we are paid for, flying the jet safely and comfortably from A to B, is the thing I'd expect to be jarring to a newhire, and you can't see that reading an airline profile on APC.
MCC pushing pilots to fly jets that are broken or have just plain incorrect MELs. Contract techs in outstations telling you that your MX is worse than Allegiant and the large regionals. A maintenance budget that has been cut by 25 million while we literally fly the paint off the jets. Skeleton staffing in LSC resulting in time-critical ACARS messages or phone calls to MCC going unanswered. Gate agents under so much pressure to get the "on time" that they are closing the door in revenue and non-revenue passengers' faces 20 prior to departure with the next flight 6 HOURS later. Guys getting their travel privileges pulled for not watching a middle-school level insulting video about cabin cleaning.
All of the above are actual, real life examples of things happening right here and right now at bluejet. They don't have a damn thing to do with allegedly being a tier 2 airline that's "only" 17 years old, and most of them weren't happening at the crappy regional I left 10 years ago. Yet posters such as Southerner jump on and claim it's my "massive ego", or that the guys pointing these things out have an "axe to grind". If you think this level of buffoonery is typical at the established majors you're incorrect.
Last edited by aewanabe; 03-30-2017 at 03:49 PM.
03-30-2017, 04:29 PM
#9835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 1,047
I had high hopes when I saw a long thought out post from you... but then I read your rationalization that this is a tier two airline so really we should just manage our expectations. Really??
Look, I came here knowing we were in negotiations and there was a long way to go. I understood the work rules weren't the best. I read up on the "benefits." But you can't FULLY comprehend how bad the work rules are until you experience them yourself. It's astounding how poor the work rules are here.
I came here optimistic that we'd negotiate a solid industry leading contract, and I still expect that. I didn't expect that working conditions would devolve on a monthly basis right from the start. Thank you for the lecture, however. I'm sure that gave the readers at LSC and OSC the warm and fuzzies.
And yes, I'm also aware every other airline has issues. I was aware of the constant IROP debacles here. I'm also aware maintenance has taken a SERIOUS turn for the worse here in the past four months or so (which honestly deserves a thread of its own). Instead of rationalizing, we should strive to be better.
Honestly I'm just floored at how quickly things keep getting worse here. Very hopeful this ship gets turned around ASAP because I'd rather not leave.
Look, I came here knowing we were in negotiations and there was a long way to go. I understood the work rules weren't the best. I read up on the "benefits." But you can't FULLY comprehend how bad the work rules are until you experience them yourself. It's astounding how poor the work rules are here.
I came here optimistic that we'd negotiate a solid industry leading contract, and I still expect that. I didn't expect that working conditions would devolve on a monthly basis right from the start. Thank you for the lecture, however. I'm sure that gave the readers at LSC and OSC the warm and fuzzies.
And yes, I'm also aware every other airline has issues. I was aware of the constant IROP debacles here. I'm also aware maintenance has taken a SERIOUS turn for the worse here in the past four months or so (which honestly deserves a thread of its own). Instead of rationalizing, we should strive to be better.
Honestly I'm just floored at how quickly things keep getting worse here. Very hopeful this ship gets turned around ASAP because I'd rather not leave.
The struggle is real!.........
03-30-2017, 05:01 PM
#9836
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
03-30-2017, 05:06 PM
#9837
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,931
Payne, you're a smart guy. You keep purposefully ignoring points that have nothing to do with our first CBA or lack of wide bodies.
Guys come here from a regional, and the word is probably out at this point that we have subpar benefits, zero work rules, and hotel quality that is mixed to be generous.
The incompetence in LSC and its effect on what we are paid for, flying the jet safely and comfortably from A to B, is the thing I'd expect to be jarring to a newhire, and you can't see that reading an airline profile on APC.
MCC pushing pilots to fly jets that are broken or have just plain incorrect MELs. Contract techs in outstations telling you that your MX is worse than Allegiant and the large regionals. A maintenance budget that has been cut by 25 million while we literally fly the paint off the jets. Skeleton staffing in LSC resulting in time-critical ACARS messages or phone calls to MCC going unanswered. Gate agents under so much pressure to get the "on time" that they are closing the door in revenue and non-revenue passengers' faces 20 prior to departure with the next flight 6 HOURS later. Guys getting their travel privileges pulled for not watching a middle-school level insulting video about cabin cleaning.
All of the above are actual, real life examples of things happening right here and right now at bluejet. They don't have a damn thing to do with allegedly being a tier 2 airline that's "only" 17 years old, and most of them weren't happening at the crappy regional I left 10 years ago. Yet posters such as Southerner jump on and claim it's my "massive ego", or that the guys pointing these things out have an "axe to grind". If you think this level of buffoonery is typical at the established majors you're incorrect.
Guys come here from a regional, and the word is probably out at this point that we have subpar benefits, zero work rules, and hotel quality that is mixed to be generous.
The incompetence in LSC and its effect on what we are paid for, flying the jet safely and comfortably from A to B, is the thing I'd expect to be jarring to a newhire, and you can't see that reading an airline profile on APC.
MCC pushing pilots to fly jets that are broken or have just plain incorrect MELs. Contract techs in outstations telling you that your MX is worse than Allegiant and the large regionals. A maintenance budget that has been cut by 25 million while we literally fly the paint off the jets. Skeleton staffing in LSC resulting in time-critical ACARS messages or phone calls to MCC going unanswered. Gate agents under so much pressure to get the "on time" that they are closing the door in revenue and non-revenue passengers' faces 20 prior to departure with the next flight 6 HOURS later. Guys getting their travel privileges pulled for not watching a middle-school level insulting video about cabin cleaning.
All of the above are actual, real life examples of things happening right here and right now at bluejet. They don't have a damn thing to do with allegedly being a tier 2 airline that's "only" 17 years old, and most of them weren't happening at the crappy regional I left 10 years ago. Yet posters such as Southerner jump on and claim it's my "massive ego", or that the guys pointing these things out have an "axe to grind". If you think this level of buffoonery is typical at the established majors you're incorrect.
Oh no I even said that 10 years ago it was known that JetBlue was behind on pay. How much was a 190 guy paid again?
I am not ignoring anything, have you seen me defend the company on mx issues?
But I guess you are right about otp we must be the only ones
Pilots? Union Says American Airlines Is Leaving Standby Passengers Behind « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth
Other problems
http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/n...t-baggage.html
United Airlines: Widespread computer problem delays travelers for hours - Oct. 14, 2016
That is just a 5 second search.
I am not saying it is acceptable for JetBlue to have these issues what I am saying is we are not the only ones. If you go read some guys posts both here and on bluepilots they act like we are the only airline that has issues and you know that is not true. Your example of gate agents shutting the door is perfect, reference the above article on American.
The other huge mistake imo is having LSC in NYC. That money does not go far there. If it were me we would leave the marketing team there and move everything else to Orlando where we would probably get more bang for our buck.
I have said before they need to stop "playing" airline. The rest I think you need to take up with southerner.
Last edited by pilotpayne; 03-30-2017 at 05:46 PM.
03-30-2017, 05:09 PM
#9838
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,931
To be fair to ATR he was hired at a much different time. I think we spent like 3 months on reserve and guys today are not seeing that quick qol change to their schedules that we did. You can let stuff go when you have a good schedule but when you are stuck at the bottom it all compounds.
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