Southerner

I hear you. But the "someone who hasn't been through what I have" argument isn't good enough. So what? Shouldn't we applaud people being able to avoid the crap we had to endure?

The fact is that we still hire 90% of our people through normal means. This is but one path. We should be happy that our company is willing to push the envelope. To grow we need pilots.

IH8ROADS

I'm not arguing with the program, I'm saying what the 90% of people who are, argue that point.

I totally agree, I'm for it. I'm envious of the pilots that take the path. When I fly with them I will say, "You suck... well done" and buy them a beer. It's evolving times.

727_Driver

You cannot compare the Brittish Airways, Air Lingus, etc Abitio programs to the US ones. They are apples and oranges.

As a BA pilot explained to me, their Ab Initio pilots are tested, already have college degrees and are hired by BA. BA pays them a stipend, pays for their training and housing. The learn the GA flying here in the states and if they get anything less than an A in their classes they are washed out of the program. After getting their commercial here they go back to their respective carrier for additional training and then become an IRO and fly as an IRO for a long time.

The biggest myth out there is there is a pilot shortage. There isn't one. There is a pay shortage. Fix the pay and you will have ample amount of qualified pilots knocking down the door.

The pilot shortage is being bantered about by the RAA and others to try and get the 1500 rule changed so they can go back to lower pay rates.

I am sorry no amount of book work can replace good ole experience. You cannot teach judgment, decision making, hand eye coordination, etc in class room. I cannot even begin to tell you how valuable my CFII days, traffic watch, single pilot IFR piston twins, and other work was before the airlines.

WhiteHammer

We are not ASA, get over your regional mindset. We should hire the most qualified out of our 4000 applicants. Not guys with no flight time, and not guys with no PIC. If the most qualified don't stick around then that problem needs to be addressed.

Southerner

The math is quite simple. Take the number of new commercial pilots/ATPs yearly, and subtract the number of airline retirees yearly. That giant sucking sound is the shortage in a few short years. Delta may not ever feel the most severe pain, but all airlines will change how they recruit as a result of it. JetBlue will have to adapt, no question. And as an employee of that company, I applaud any efforts to think outside the box to address a real threat to the bottom line. I like my company to be viable, long term.

The propaganda you are spouting sounded good 3-4 years ago. Let's see how it sounds 6 years from now.

Bluedriver

Point. Of. Order. It's not really an increase, they take MOST of that back from you on 2017 profit sharing.

say again

I agree, but wasn't the profit sharing % until last year pretty low? What's to stop them from giving a low percentage again? The 8% is solid, until it rises with a CBA.

IrishNJ

Yes, if I recall right, it was about 15% last year. Next year with the same profit margin it'd be only 10%. Down by 5%. So stop spouting 8% raise. Whether it's variable or "solid" it's not 8%.

(Next you'll be happy with a TA that takes away all our benefits but has a "nice pay rate increase" - it's not a good TA if it doesn't have both)

Bluedriver

Still some debate about how it all actually works. Here's how im currently seeing it.

Last year was profit sharing worth 20.87% of your eligible income, -5% JB cliff = 15.87% which was paid to us.

Under the new formula, we lose one third of the profit sharing pool, so would have been 13.91% minus the 5% JB cliff, so they would have paid us 8.91% vs 15.87%.

A LOSS of 7%. That's using last year's profit. 2017 and beyond could be more or less.

say again

Stop putting words into my mouth. You obviously missed what I was asking, and it was a very simple question. NO, I won't be happy with only a pay increase and our benefits disappearing. I'm not a ****ing idiot. Stop letting your emotions take over. I listen to my union, not the blowhards on here when I make up my decision. BTW, by solid I mean not pertaining to profits or PS. Ok.