Originally Posted by Bryanintransit

So, in theory, ExpressJet flies for United, Delta and American now if you count ASA and ExpressJet as one. Does that mean you couldn't go to any one of these major carriers? Vague is right.

Originally Posted by Bryanintransit

So, in theory, ExpressJet flies for United, Delta and American now if you count ASA and ExpressJet as one. Does that mean you couldn't go to any one of these major carriers? Vague is right.

Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18

Sec definitions.

Affiliate. An "affiliate" of, or a person "affiliated" with, a specified person, is a person that directly, or indirectly through one or more intermediaries, controls, or is controlled by, or is under common control with, the person specified.


Parent. A "parent" of a specified person is an affiliate controlling such person directly, or indirectly through one or more intermediaries.


I still think I could stretch that and argue it in court that if you came from Skywest you pretty much can't go anywhere.

Either way, will you have the funds laying around to fight a drawn out battle in court?

Originally Posted by benzoate

Jetblue was given very specific language from the PVC legal as to the definitions of "affiliate", "control" and others. This suggested language and definitions for section 15 were also given. Of course all the suggestions were disregarded.

Jetblue's reasoning for not placing any specific language in the PEA's is based on their belief that the "spirit" of the idea is incorporated in the document. Their are countless examples of the "spirit" of the rule being to applied the FSM, disability, insurance, vacation etc. In a calculated manner the airline choses to omit language and definitions in the PEA giving the airline specific flexibility. It's how it has always been done at Jetblue.
Insurance and vacation are one thing but section 15 is supposed to protect our jobs. Any airline with a union is going to eat us alive in a T/E because specific definitions are defensible in courts. The spirit of the section is not.
There is a substantial difference between the words "and" or "or" in a contract. A capital "P" in pilot means something completely different to a lower case "p".

We live in a specific CBA world with a generalized PEA.

Originally Posted by MrBigAir

^^^^ THIS

Nothing is actually done in "spirit" though many things are sold that way. JetBlue is not an exception, this is how the world works. The 8hr Reduced Rest overnight was in "spirit" supposed to be relief for extenuating circumstances beyond airline control and to be used sparingly. Instead, schedules were built upon it, and now we are going to be dealing with 117.

When it's time to toe the line, "spirit" is about as worthless as yesterday's wind. This is true in any industry, with any sort of contract or regulation. "Spirit" is just a vaporous notion that can be swept side-- work rules need to be forged in hard details and specific definitions and bound by a legal contract. Otherwise we are mercy to the whims of those above.

Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot

^^^ AGREE ^^^ Vague language is the way employees always get screwed. The company is very specific about things that THEY demand. All that said, I hate ALPA... so whaddya gonna do...?

Originally Posted by Beechnut58

That's the way I read it. But we will have to leave it to JB pilots to get some clarity on the meaning of "affiliate" at a road show.