Velocipede

There are some contracts that arbitration is/was a permanent feature of. You should never make blanket statements based on your own limited experience.

shackone

OK...is it correct to assume the union agreed to that as part of their original negotiated agreement?

Is there a time when a union goes into arbitration without agreeing to it beforehand?

Joeshmoe

AMEN to that brother. Until we run the (insert name of idiotic bitter pilot here) out of this industry we cannot accomplish this. It just amazes me every time I see these real cancers on the pilot group dogging pilots left and right while they sit and do NOTHING to help the group as a whole. Funny how many of us forget where we came from. I guess all of these bitter a**holes were hired at a major flying a nice big Boeing a week after the wet commercial ticket was issued and never worked at an outfit that was less than desirable. Then again they were probably bagged on when they were coming up through the ranks so why not pass it on. Not intelligent enough to stop the cycle I guess.

Velocipede

Of course I don't forget where I came from. Worked my way through college in a Union job. Walked two picket lines and saw the result of scabs stabbing labor in the back. 11.5 years in the Navy fighting tossing decks and hauling sailors and Marines to places they didn't want to be. Flying 18 hour missions across the Pacific.

But, I never took a non-Union job that undercut a Union contract OR crossed a picket line. Those are, by definition, equally onerous. And the name for them both is the same -- SCAB!

The way to the top of the food chain is NEVER over the bodies of people you've stabbed in the back. Then to ask those same guys for a jumpseat is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

CE750

The CEO of our airline told me yesterday in no uncertain terms that besides the unions (a reality he is willing to deal with, a "marriage councilor" as he called it), non-union competitors are by far his worse bane in terms of remaining competitive. In our segment, there are recently A LOT of non-union bottom feeders coming in to make a "quick buck".

He said when his pilots have higher wages and better (and reasonable) work rules, but the competition is hugging the FAR's on rest, and paying a lot less, as well as using inferior hotels, etc.. it makes bidding on contracts a bit tough... This is from a veteran of several airline executive and trucking executive positions spanning Pan Am, NWA, and other larger operations like Yellow Corp.

Unions are a "necessary" evil... and if you're non union, you're bringing the rest of us down... thanks!

Joeshmoe

Great. Now tone down the rhetoric.

Velocipede

Atta boy, CE750. At least you get it.

CE750

Problem with this thread (and too many threads on the internet) is these guys are too busy attacking the messenger and the semantics of the delivery of an argument, and not busy enough trying to understand the underlying point; the economics of labor as a commodity (cost) and how that has repercussions through the industry from bottom to top should be what is debated.

May God help us all!

AviatorGP

Hey Mike...What are you refering to about 99% of the group voting in favor? Are you talking about a certain airline in particular? What did I miss????

Fokker28

BS. Unions are nothing more than the collective voice of the represented workers. A given union is no more 'evil' per se than the 'evilness' of the employees it represents. Now, of COURSE management will almost always cast unions as the antichrist; They frequently oppose managements tactics and force THEM to work harder to remain competitive.

When you call unions, in general, 'evil' you are simply calling yourself evil, as well as any other union member. The same usually applies to representative governments, but that's another beehive, and I'm out of sticks.