SAABDriver

Thanks for the info FNG320....

things are good where I am now and hope to make just one more airline change.....B6......

Thanks

FNG320

Meworry,
Not true. Guys who bid the A320 are type locked for two years. Plus all of us (after the 190 CA bid last week) are also now type locked in the A320. After two years an A320 FO can bid Captain in the 190. The carrot for the new guys is that there new 190 FO can bid captain in the 190 before our current type lock in the A320 expires.

Where the company's plans start to fall apart is 3-5 years down the road. When A320 upgrade time is approaching 4-5 years and 190 upgrade times approach over 2-3 years. You will then get guys going A320 FO for two years (type lock in A320), then 190 Capt for two years (type lock in 190), then finially Capt in the A320. When this happens, the training cost will go thru the roof. If you look thru our contracts or all of the 190 paperwork, this is what will happen. It is not prohibitted. Management even says they support the seniority system of bidding types, that is why the 190 Capt numb ers were incresaed from 100 to 150, to support the projected numbers people wanted/needed.

Thus 3-5 years from now, things will be different. How can the company fix this. Let the 190 have the lower pay for a couple of years, then finailly give them a pay raise to make it a minimal increase in pay to shift from E190 Capt to A320 Captain (be senior E190 capt vs junior A320 captain for only a small pay raise?), Plus to make the more senior E190 FO want to stay in type and go to the E190 Capt postion vs changing type and going to the A320 Capt, thus blocking more junior A320 FOs from bidding it.

It will all come down to time upgrade in each system from each system. I fear that we will eventually have guys jumping back and forth between types causing massive training cost (jsut like the other Majors). However if all Captains and all FO got the same pay (same as UPS, AirTran, Frontier, Alaska, etc). The desire to jump back and forth between types goes way down. Yes, some movement will occur based on seniority, bases, quality of life, but it would be way less than the system that JB is using right now. Not to mention this would fix the E190 pay problem. So in about 2 years, expect the pay to change, not until then. Hey, it is the same job with the same company with the same responsiblities so why not the same pay. JB always talks about being fair, well some time in the future they will finally live up to their talk. Until then it may/will get ugly.

Just my opinion...

FNG

SAABDriver

Looking from the outside I often wondered why JetBlue did not go with the A-318. Not too much bigger but the pilots could have all been typed and cross trained. The cost of operation might be higher but you would save the training costs.

Well for me... I should be blessed to go to the 190 huh?

P

jblumindtrick

If we stopped delivery on the A320 and grew the E190 fleet that would solve the crosstraining expenses.

E-190/A-320 pay is what it is because if you paid labor what it thought it was worth then you wouldn't have as strong of a balance sheet.

Without a positive/strong balance sheet, you can not convince the markets to invest in this investment vehicle(JBLU) which allows for equities to be cashed out on the other end.

FNG320

Here is a copy of the inflight pay scale. Last year it was posted on a bulletin board in inflight. Otherwise, I know of no other place to find it. The way I read it, a 13year flight attendant gets paid more than an E190 FO. Now that really sucks! Plus they get a 5% or more pay raise per year for longevity. Where the pilots get next to nothing in longevity raises.


Inflight

Year pay percent
13 $38.40 5.21%
12 $36.50 5.19%
11 $34.70 5.15%
10 $33.00 5.10%
9 $31.40 5.02%
8 $29.90 5.28%
7 $28.40 5.19%
6 $27.00 9.09%
5 $24.75 6.68%
4 $23.20 4.98%
3 $22.10 5.24%
2 $21.00 5.00%
1 $20.00 starting



Hope this helps,


FNG

automatique

Since the 190 pilots will be paid less than the Bus drivers because they're less productive, are the inflight going to be paid MORE on the 190 since they will be MORE productive? The bus has 4 inflight for 156 pax. The 190 will have 2 for 100. Is that right?

Meworry?

OK, I'll buy that. Can't believe I was wrong, first time this year!

I talked to a couple of Air Wisconsin guys the other night on a layover, very eager to come to Jetblue. They were quite surprised at the 190 pay rates, but in the end were not deterred by 36$ an hour. Initial pay for them in the CRJ, they said, was $23/hour in the right seat, though they were both doing better than 36 currently. I explained that the pay does not go up much until upgrade. Still, they wanted very much to come to B6, and not as In-Flight.

Realistic

The 190 rates will become a "sea anchor" for the 320 rates.
The cost per seat mile on the 190's is already shaved so close (what with all the latest gadgets and everything) so the company will find it "impossible" to make the airplanes profitable at big airline rates (remember, "we could have outsourced them or we could have elected not to buy them") - therefore - any significant increases to 320 pay would be unfare to pilots joining Jetblue with the same experience level as all of us.
Airbus rates will have to be moderated to make 190 rates realistic.
The only people making money at Jetblue will be the ones who continue to cash in month after month.
It's OK though. With fast growth comes large numbers.
Get those surveys in - we may be speaking with a different voice in years to come.

bluebrother

It's OK though. With fast growth comes large numbers.
Get those surveys in - we may be speaking with a different voice in years to come.[/QUOTE]


sure, and i can end up with the same type of representation that the pilots are receiving at UNITED, DELTA, US AIRWAYS.... thats a great idea!!

Lennon

I don't think anyone is advocating ALPA. But if JB management continues to ignore the concerns of the pilot group, there will be a need for a voice outside of the Values Committee.

Love JetBlue, but I don't particularly care for being told that I am valued as an employee on the first day and then later informed that there are 10,000 people who will gladly take my job if I have the temerity to disagree with something.