JetBlue and Southwest
12-29-2005, 05:22 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by Kill Bill
no, he's probably still employed by a major who used to pay well until the "i wanna be a pilot even if i have to pay THEM" crowd took over the industry and alpa stood around with their thumb in their ass trying to find a clue somewhere.
word: JB ain't gonna be around for the long-term. it's a scam. just watch and wait.
word: JB ain't gonna be around for the long-term. it's a scam. just watch and wait.
even if you're right about jetblue it's too late, a presedent has been set for low pay. take a look at airtran spirit and coming soon virgin america (could be wrong about this one but I doubt it).
I think alpa has more then their thumb up their ars
Last edited by Eric Stratton; 12-29-2005 at 05:25 PM.
12-29-2005, 07:13 PM
#22
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Posts: n/a
[QUOTE=automatique]
None taken. I don't live there anymore, and am glad of it, but there are worse places.
Originally Posted by Meworry?
No offense meant, Meworry. I just can't imagine living anywhere near NYC. Traffic, crappy roads, ****ed-off people, Hilary Clinton
, etc...
Of course, 2 hours range within JFK during the two rush hours is Kew!
, etc...Of course, 2 hours range within JFK during the two rush hours is Kew!
12-29-2005, 07:44 PM
#23
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
Sorry charlie very much employed.
If you don't see the flaw in his thinking (which I think you don't) that's frightning. He takes a low paying job and hopes that others don't do the same. there are thousands just like him who will take a job at jetblue because it pays more then the regional that they work at now. when virgin america starts up they could bring back pay for training and they would still have thousands of hungry little pilots waiting at there door step.
If you don't see the flaw in his thinking (which I think you don't) that's frightning. He takes a low paying job and hopes that others don't do the same. there are thousands just like him who will take a job at jetblue because it pays more then the regional that they work at now. when virgin america starts up they could bring back pay for training and they would still have thousands of hungry little pilots waiting at there door step.
I did not take a low paying job hoping that others would not do the same, you moron. That was an offhand comment at the thought that some were beginning to turn us down. I don't think it is a low paying job, based on the fact that it was a start up at the time I joined, and I could upgrade quickly. I still do not think it is a low paying job, unless you are 55 with 4 kids and just being hired. There was no airline anywhere that I could make more money the first five to ten years. Jetblue is the result of todays problems, not the cause. It is a darwinistic organism adapting to today's environment. Those of us who work here are adapting to changing circumstance while guys like you sit around and moan about it. It's called free enterprise, competition, the American way. It's why I fought for my country (did you?). You want some socialistic, regulated system that would keep your pay high but would keep 50% of today's flying public on the ground and cause the loss of tens of thousands of jobs, all while perpetuating lousy service and high fares. Now that is selfish. And you wonder why we are where we are. There's your clue.
I assume that after your pilot group is "bent over" you will quit in order to avoid becoming part of the problem by working for low pay, as you accuse me of doing. Good luck, I think you'll need it.
12-29-2005, 08:56 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: A320
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
. when virgin america starts up they could bring back pay for training and they would still have thousands of hungry little pilots waiting at there door step.
I came up in the mid-nineties and vehemently opposed the PFT thing. In fact, I ended up going corporate because I couldn't get on (who could?) with the three airlines that weren't PFT. I didn't even get a cup of coffee for it. Not from ALPA. Not from APA, IPA, AOPA, NRA, IRA, or any other alphabet group you can think of. It's kind of like pis$ing in a wet suit; you may get a warm fuzzy, but no one seems to notice.
In another thread, you vaguely mention XJET. You don't, by chance, work there do you? Remember, they were a big PFT outfit way back when.
Respectfully,
JayDub
Last edited by JayDub; 12-30-2005 at 09:44 AM.
12-30-2005, 01:33 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 649
Meworry,
Thanks for your service to the country. The only problem in your rationale is that Southwest does everything JetBlue does, yet still seems to pay their pilots wages worthy of the profession, so take a moment away from the Neelman Kool-Aid dispenser and come up with a better reply to EricStratton.
Thanks for your service to the country. The only problem in your rationale is that Southwest does everything JetBlue does, yet still seems to pay their pilots wages worthy of the profession, so take a moment away from the Neelman Kool-Aid dispenser and come up with a better reply to EricStratton.
12-30-2005, 01:49 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: A320, left
Posts: 37
Wow, this thread got sidetracked quickly.
Back to the topic, I don't necessarily agree with the quoted statement, even though I think just about all of the advice is good. There's tons of potential reward -- mostly based on how the 190 does. Either we're on the verge of a major expansion, continued profits, climbing stock price, etc. or we'll die a slow death. I don't see much possibility of an in-between.
As far as QOL, I think you'd have a similar experience at both places. And I agree that it's very important. Other than standard griping I haven't talked to anyone who's seriously unhappy at either place. My only gripe against WN when I was looking for a job was their requiring applicants to pay for their own 737 type rating. I understand that's no longer the case.
Bottom line, you're sitting pretty and I think I too would go with whomever hired me first, but the end decision from where I sit looks like the difference between investing in IBM and Google.
P.S. Meworry -- GREAT sum-up by the way.
Originally Posted by automatique
I agree there is higher risk at JB, where is the higher reward?
As far as QOL, I think you'd have a similar experience at both places. And I agree that it's very important. Other than standard griping I haven't talked to anyone who's seriously unhappy at either place. My only gripe against WN when I was looking for a job was their requiring applicants to pay for their own 737 type rating. I understand that's no longer the case.
Bottom line, you're sitting pretty and I think I too would go with whomever hired me first, but the end decision from where I sit looks like the difference between investing in IBM and Google.
P.S. Meworry -- GREAT sum-up by the way.
12-30-2005, 02:05 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Vito
Meworry,
Thanks for your service to the country. The only problem in your rationale is that Southwest does everything JetBlue does, yet still seems to pay their pilots wages worthy of the profession, so take a moment away from the Neelman Kool-Aid dispenser and come up with a better reply to EricStratton.
Thanks for your service to the country. The only problem in your rationale is that Southwest does everything JetBlue does, yet still seems to pay their pilots wages worthy of the profession, so take a moment away from the Neelman Kool-Aid dispenser and come up with a better reply to EricStratton.
People have a short memory. As recently as 1990 The military pilots I flew with turned there noses up at SWA. Low pay, single type, no international, too many block hours and legs. JetBlue is still only a 5 year old company heavy in expansion and growth. Upgrades at jetblue are half the time as SWA. You cannot fairly compare the two.
12-30-2005, 07:56 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by SitBackRelax
Wow, this thread got sidetracked quickly.
Back to the topic, I don't necessarily agree with the quoted statement, even though I think just about all of the advice is good. There's tons of potential reward -- mostly based on how the 190 does. Either we're on the verge of a major expansion, continued profits, climbing stock price, etc. or we'll die a slow death. I don't see much possibility of an in-between.
Back to the topic, I don't necessarily agree with the quoted statement, even though I think just about all of the advice is good. There's tons of potential reward -- mostly based on how the 190 does. Either we're on the verge of a major expansion, continued profits, climbing stock price, etc. or we'll die a slow death. I don't see much possibility of an in-between.
We're pretty much middle\lower end of the pack, paywise. We have 10 jillion apps onfile. Why in the world would they raise the pay?
Don't count on making much money on JB stock, unless you're a daytrader. It seems to be a good vehicle for that. (Up a buck, down a buck...)
At it's heady heyday, I never saw much profit sharing $. After over 3 years, it's less than $16,000, total. We can't touch it, anyway.
Don't they project a loss for 2005? That 16K isn't going to grow this year.
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