Meworry?

So which is it? Are you fed up, or very happy? Are you making the "big bucks" or "enjoying a lower standard of living?" Deregulation has been great for the average guy, though not for the legacy carrier pilots. More people can afford to travel, there are more jobs, and more choices. And, as companies like JB grow, it will get even better because we provide a better product than older LCCs. I make about $126/ hour, by the way, depending on how much I fly, and I expect we will get better pay in the future. I get 16-17 days off a month, and I can work more if I want to make more. If Jetblue is profitable, then we all make more, both in profit sharing and stock options and, I believe, higher pay. If it's not profitable (like now) then we won't do as well, but that is true for Neeleman as well, and we still have jobs. If I had to commute, or did not get the days off, I would find something else to do. Some pilots make life miserable for themselves with personal choices, because they will accept anything to fly. That's not me. If you can't work for less than 180, then don't! You're an educated guy, I'd wager. Get a real job. We'll let the market decide who the winners and losers are. I bet if you worked here, you would have a different point of view.

dckozak

I think I speak for the majority of non JB pilots lurking on this (sub) forum that we hope JB pilots set the standard for pilot compensation and benefits in the future. Its in no one's interest to see pilot comp go down, regardless if its a legacy, LCC, cargo or what have you. It is a little distrubing reading JB guys on the forum flying 110+ (credit) hours a month, boasting about their W2's as if making 200K while short changing their time at home with the ones that love and depend on them.
We all have a stake in the game. I assure you unless NWA, UAL, DAL, CAL and everyone else just goes away there will be a competive makeplace that JB, Spirit and every other LCC will have to compete against. If worker pay and benefits decide the winner and losers, we will all lose in the end.
Your lack of union represention will, at some point, effect weather you are part of the rebuilding of this industry or the cause of its (from a pilot perspective) demise. Sure ALPA carriers are taking it in the shorts right now but at least the pilots are part of the process, not just handed a new book when management decides to reward or reduce comp. Looking at your pay and benefits as posted in the pay section doesn't give an outsider a warm a fuzzy abou the future of our profession. Remember, overtime is not a pay raise
Times may be good at JB right now but every dog has his day. I hope you all are savy enough to realise that a sucessful winning formula is quickly emulated, weather by the "old dogs" or the young and new. Set the standard to reach up to not what if will fall to.

bluechunks

That is probably the most prescient message on this forum in quite some time.

bluebrother

what jetblue pilots have done is no different than what the southwest pilots did 20 years ago regarding pay and benefits. to say that "pilots are part of the process" due to being unionized is a facade. just look at the "forced" pay rates/benefits/retirement plans of the pilots "who are part the process" at UNITED, USAIR, NORTHWEST and and now DELTA. im sure their very happy about their new "collective bargaining agreement".

what jetblue is doing realistically, its following a standard (create by southwest) that does not fail during flucuating economic climates. YOU may not like it, but i'd rather have these realistic rates than GIVE IT ALL BACK AND THEN SOME when the ECONOMY or INDUSTRY GOES SOUTH ( i.e. now)

you need to see the big picture. ALPA did just as much harm to the profession (i.e. unrealistic payrates, workrules) than airline management. THAT SIR, IS BEING HONEST. im sorry it doesnt give you the "warm and fuzzy"

Meworry?

It may not be apparent, but none of us plan on taking pay cuts at JB, nor is there a hint of one. And, I support the idea of a union, but on the SWA model. I don't want outsiders dealing with our management and making it adversarial. I want JB pilots dealing with JB managmement, with the goal of a high quality of life for all of us at the company (not just pilots) and a strong, profitable airline. I expect increased compensation if we can sustain better margins, and I think a Jetblue Pilots Association would be a great tool. And it's "whether" not "weather."

dckozak

And it's "whether" not "weather."[/QUOTE]
Yea spelling is not my fortie, The spell checker doesn't work on the computer I'm using. Thankfully perfect grammer is not required to fly big jets

dckozak

tDoes not fail
Realistic rates? in whom's opinion?? Your management?? You?? as in "you" (personally) or "you" as in your fellow JB pilots. As far ALPA doing harm to the profession, they just negoiated with (thier) respective airlines, they didn't write the business plan
Remember your "rates" are based on your managements assessment of what will keep you just happy enough to not vote in a union
And your right, I get no "warm and fuzzy" from you having no "B" plan or defined plan. Or your profit sharing that doesn't allow you cash out your stock when and if you wish.
I'm not jelious, of what you got, just concerned about the trend (regarding pilot issues, not competive or business at JB). I hope you all the best, just try to build on what you have, don't try to justify it

Vito

dckozak,

Ditto for the excellent post, to the JB pilots, I have some good friends at JB, but here's the problem. You guys have been singing the same tune concerning how somehow through good management/better productivity/fill in the blank.....JB has become sucessful, when in reality, your paid sub-scale salaries, cherry pick your routes (Haven't seen too many blue tails in Des Moines or Springfield MO, or Paris France) and your entire airline is on their 4th or 5th year pay scale....How can a Delta or AA compete? I'll tell you how lay off thousands and cut their salary and benefits!! The whole industry is being dragged down. Hell, my neighbor just bought tickets on Spirit for $59...the friggin cab ride to the airport cost $80!!! But I guess we have to live with this new paradigm

Vito

dckozack,
I'll be honored to buy you a beer if we ever meet! My treat because, unlike some of these guys ,My fellow brothers in "brown" will not sit by and be content to accept the scraps from the banquet table.
Happy Holidays to All and lets hope 2006 bodes well for our industry!
Vito

dckozak

See you in F Street some night, we can drink and toast to the new year and hope for peace and profit (for you pax guy's ) for all.