Flyby1206

from the CBA:

im not sure exactly the mechanics of how it would work with the expiration of prior claims. If your claim is valid through March 2025 does that mean any bid closing before March 2025 would give you the rights? If that is true then any effective date in the August bid would give you claim.

Or is it only any effective date before March 2025? Maybe someone else has some better experience with it.

Bluedriver

Mandatory allocation/vacation use is different and separate from an "annual" bid. You can have mandatory allocation and still have quarterly bids. It's my understanding the purpose of having an annual bid was to protect your awarded vacation.

Desdi

My point was in essence what you just stated in your last sentence and the stated purpose at the roadshows when faced with pilots preferring the quarterly bid system was that it would drive overall pilot numbers and an annual system was the only way to guarantee that increase... that at least was the reason given by the NC when I asked the question.

Bluedriver

I don't think it's unreasonable that you've confused the answer after so many years, or conflated the answer from one question to a different question, or the guy just gave you a bad answer.

Mandatory allocation would require additional staffing, as guys are now taking time off instead of selling back all their PTO time and working 52 weeks a year.

The annual system bid was to solve the problem of losing your vacation when changing bases or seats mid year.

That's why we have the annual system bid in Aug, then the vacation bid shortly after. This way if you change seats in June the following year (from the system bid), when you bid vacation you bid weeks in the first half of the year in your current seat, and you bid weeks after June in your new seat.

If anything the annual system bid ultimately allows for LESS staffing vs simply forcing the company to honor your awarded vacation when you switch seats.

​​​​​​The union (in the specific case of annual bidding) wanted to protect your awarded vacation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Desdi

And what you just described is precisely why their answer to me made no sense at the time as to why it could only work with an annual bid, nevertheless that is what that particular NC representative told me...he said it was inextricably linked. I for one disagreed then and disagree now for the logic you just presented. Perhaps the guy just gave me a bad answer like you said!

Bluediver

If you ask again there’s a 2 out of three chance you’ll get the same answer. So there is that to look forward to. 🤢

Bluedriver

​​​​​​
Yes, some CBAs protect your awarded vacation even if you change base or seat. The company doesn't want this because a senior FO will bid summer vacation he couldn't hold as a junior CA, then upgrade and keep his summer vacation that year. This results in more CAs on vacation in the summer than planned, and they would have to offer more premium pay to cover those weeks.

This was the way at my previous regional back when things were moving fast, and it was literally a strategy or expectation that certain bids of the year would go more senior for upgrade because guys were waiting for the vacation awards to close. The vacancies right before the vacation bid would go junior. I got an 18 month upgrade 15 years ago because the guys senior to me were waiting for the next bid... And the next bid was cancelled because of the 2008 financial crisis. I snuck in under the wire...

JB management didn't want that system because they are critically staffed most summers, so the union compromise was to do the annual bid, which ultimately reduces overall staffing compared to simply protecting vacation alone.

Company never saw these delivery delays coming, so in the last few years the annual bid has resulted in overstaffing because Airbus always seems to notify JB about the following years delivery delays right after JB awards all the CA positions for the following year...

I'm pretty sure the company doesn't want annual bids anymore.

The mandatory allocation/vacation came about for a different reason. JBALPA was DEAD SET on increasing the number of premium vacation weeks available for bidding, and I agree with that 110%. The problem is those premium weeks are summer, Christmas break, Thanksgiving break, etc... they again are the critical staffing periods for the airline. The weeks the airline already runs on staffing fumes. The company didn't want to increase staffing those weeks/months because it's very expensive to hire guys just to primarily cover the summer, and then be fat all the rest of the year and carry that expense. But there is no other way, because in some summers they can't even offer enough premium to staff the company (think back several years, it's been better the last few years) because everyone willing to fly and premium themselves over the summer (not me) was already at legal limits.

Now what's even more expensive than hiring a bunch of guys to cover all those new summer allocation months? Allowing everyone else who couldn't hold good vacation months to sell back their PTO/vacation time at 150%...

There were hundreds of guys, or maybe 1,000+ who if they couldn't hold summer or spring break, or Christmas or Thanksgiving, they just wouldn't bid vacation that year or only bid partial, and then sell the rest back at 150%. Or just be sick in the summer because they had extra hours. In that scenario the company is now hiring extra guys just to cover the new premium vacation weeks, running fat the rest of the year, and having to pay many/most of the guys that can't hold those weeks 150% for their vacation time, while having to pay them full guarantee during the heavy trough months.

Instead the compromise was more premium weeks in exchange (at least partially) for mandatory vacation. If you can't hold the summer, pick which weeks in Sept/Oct/April, etc you want, or they'll just assign them to you.

To my knowledge all of our peers already had forced vacation, so it should have been expected.

And honestly it was good for the group overall, as we had too many guys who would never take vacation and just fly max hours 52 weeks a year, which isn't healthy.

But that last parts just my opinion.

I for one like my time away from this place, and I like to work the absolute BARE MINIMUM in the summer. So the increased summer allocation was well worth the forced vacation for me.

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Wasntme

it’s because of cultural inflation. The struggle is real.

dontsurf

at least we're not furloughing

KNOTAPILOT

For now.

Filler