Bluedriver

Yeah, I think ultimately we all know nothing is a "sure thing".

Hoping it works out for all of us.

Bluedriver

Just for some light conversation, anyone have any useful thoughts on what the TPA should have/not have or allow/not allow?

CincoDeMayo

NK pilots-“Snap up to JBLU rates for NK”

JBLU pilots-“No snap up for NK pilots for TPA”

Conquistador27

Yep, sounds about right.

Bluedriver

Maybe some ideas that aren't contentious?

Hence the "light conversation" part

RiddleEagle18

I doubt the company will entertain a snap up, but if they did it’s not a bad thing.

it makes the heavy lifting for the CBA a little easier.

It would also bring the NK guys up before the CBA so they are less likely to be enticed by a larger wage increase over other areas. I think there would need to be some gains for the JB guys as well though.


There should also be a protocol agreement between the unions, attached to this TPA that sets some standards that will be used during the SLI. Important dates and agreed on categories and class(if they can agree)So JBALPA agreeing to push for pay parity may impact that as well or vice versa.

Flyby1206

I'd like to see an immediate NK snap up to current JB rates as well as a continued snap up clause every Aug 1st in perpetuity.

Bluedriver

I'm semi neutral on the NK snap up, but my concern is that many NK believe they have a better overall CBA besides rates. Examples are grid rules, DTZ, some vacation language, min 4 days off, better X/Y etc. So having them snap to our rates, and their work rules doesn't seem fair. It's not like we will get immediate reserve grid relief, etc...

Now, I personally do not believe the NK CBA is superior overall, but many NK have sure said it is.

​​​​​​Otherwise I'm a little indifferent at this point.

The previous post about having NK snap to JB rates being a disadvantage during SLI, was a concern, but it should be PERFECTLY clear to an arbitrator that they would ONLY have those rates because of the JB acquisition, and therefore their pre-acquisition rates are what they should get credit for.

CincoDeMayo

I really wouldn’t get too deep into the assumption that you will get some great advantage because JBLU pilots make more hourly than NK does. We are 2 narrowbody carriers and the career expectations of both groups is/was to fly narrowbody aircraft. This isn’t a US Airways/AmericaWest and “super premium wide body flying”.

For every “we bring a highly hourly rate” argument, NK will have a counter. It’s how it works

Focus on the big picture, step 1, TPA. Getting as much as we can during the TPA will only help us in the JCBA. Cutting off your nose to spite your face seldom works; assuming holding back gains in the TPA at the potential cost of JCBA gains, not a good idea.

Bluedriver

I don't know how much credit JB could/might get from on SLI arbitrator during SLI. But I reject the idea that we are both just narrowbody airlines and equal. JB ALPA and JB management have a defined and agreed to peerset for pay rates, which includes the big 4 and Alaska, and excluded Frontier and Allegiant.

Your management has kept you in a narrow band with Frontier for the most part, other than your recent contract extension, which still has you well behind the top tier of the industry. That is a big part of your " career expectations".

As for giving NK pay parity with JB having any bearing on the final JCBA pay rates, I reject that entirely.

Some mistakenly believe that the final JCBA pay rate will be:

Starting rate + X = JCBA rate. Where the starting rate + some fixed increase will equal the final JCBA rate.

This is just not the case. We all expect that the final JCBA rate will START at the highest current narrowbody pay rate of our peers, and go up from there. Whether we are currently at $200 an hour, or $356 an hour, we will be looking to exceed the highest of the current high water mark of the industry.

And just as importantly, JetBlue is the larger pilot group. JetBlue is the acquiring company. JetBlue is the SURVIVING company. Any notion that the STARTING point for JCBA pay rate negotiations is anything less than current Aug 24 JETBLUE pay rates is farcical. JetBlue managements opening JCBA proposal won't even have rates below current JB book, so any rate (NK) I other than current JB book as a starting point is IRRELEVANT. The NK pay rate at merger announcement, the NK pay rate at TPA, or any other NK pay rate is irrelevant... That's simply NOT where we will start our JCBA negotiations from, nor will it have any bearing on JCBA negotiations. That rate is from the dustbin of history and is from a different segment of the US airline industry from that which JB operates and intends to operate.

As for NK pilots "jumping at the first pay raise offered", that's for you guys to police, and for the JNC to protect us all from.

If we use our joint negotiating capital to get you pay parity with us, something you were unable to do on your own, then you will have JB rates (plus I assume you will want our Aug 24 snap-up and increase in 401k contributions), plus a much better reserve grid than we have, and your DTZ, etc... and JB pilots will get nothing.

You will get your raise when the JCBA is achieved, just as we will get functional reserve grids back, among other things, when the JCBA is achieved.

​​​​​You and I agree on many things. I imagine our views will be at odds during TPA/SLI, but once we're all one happy family I imagine we will again agree on many things.
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