In the courtroom.
12-07-2023, 06:26 AM
#412
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: NK CA
Posts: 840
I don't think debt is the only indication of BK. I mean they've been saying AA is gonna go bankrupt for like the last 10 years and a quick google search shows they have 41 billion in debt and they seem to be humming along just fine. Im pretty sure the suits did the math on all of this wayyyy before even approaching NK. And im gonna assume that if debt = bankrupcy they wouldn't have gone down this road to begin with.
12-07-2023, 06:48 AM
#413
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,233
Let’s think about it.
People that can’t afford to fly and have never flown before often buy tickets on Spirit and other ULCC’s for the first time, not fully understanding what they just paid for. Only to be faced with hard decisions about whether to pay for their bags or discard them or not fly at all and not be refunded for their original ticket. Or maybe they showed up to the airport 30 min prior to departure because they don’t realize that it’s not like a greyhound where you can just show up and get on. They end up missing their flight with no refund. ULCC’s profit from these scenarios much more than other airlines.
Spirit voluntarily pulls out of markets that aren’t profitable all the time, why is the DOJ not concerned about the harm to price sensitive pax in those situations?
Jetblue to my knowledge does not or at least not nearly to the level that Spirit does use contract employees for gates and ramp services. Generally pays employees more. Generally treats costumers better.
Unfortunately the DOJ’s argument gets a lot of traction from occasional fliers who only understand that air travel has gotten expensive, and then see the DOJ “fighting the good fight”.
It seems that judge Young is smart and fair. He was appointed by Reagan, but I don’t see him as some chest thumping anti-woke hero. Just an even keeled guy that will try to find middle ground. I still feel very confident that it will go through with maybe some more divestitures.
Spirit voluntarily pulls out of markets that aren’t profitable all the time, why is the DOJ not concerned about the harm to price sensitive pax in those situations?
Jetblue to my knowledge does not or at least not nearly to the level that Spirit does use contract employees for gates and ramp services. Generally pays employees more. Generally treats costumers better.
Unfortunately the DOJ’s argument gets a lot of traction from occasional fliers who only understand that air travel has gotten expensive, and then see the DOJ “fighting the good fight”.
It seems that judge Young is smart and fair. He was appointed by Reagan, but I don’t see him as some chest thumping anti-woke hero. Just an even keeled guy that will try to find middle ground. I still feel very confident that it will go through with maybe some more divestitures.
https://www.travelpulse.com/news/air...r-the-airlines
I mean guys, let’s just stop and think about it. The judge made two comments here that was highlighted in this news article.
The judge made the comment he finds it very hard to believe in a permanent injunction.
but he also made the comment there needs to be more divestitures.
I mean, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say the transaction is going to go through but he’ll probably add some more gates or slots that we might have to give up. Hopefully not a whole lot.
12-07-2023, 07:02 AM
#414
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 246
Hour long talk from Michael Cohen who has been in court every day of the trial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSsHqqW9Z48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSsHqqW9Z48
12-07-2023, 08:54 AM
#415
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,921
Hour long talk from Michael Cohen who has been in court every day of the trial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSsHqqW9Z48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSsHqqW9Z48
Cohen now feels it will be approved with additional divestments
Cohen said many in the courtroom felt it would not be eventually approved because of DOT and pricing hurdles
Cohen thinks judge is already working on opinion based on what he was saying in court towards the end.
12-07-2023, 09:39 AM
#416
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Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,931
you made some really good points. and I think this news article really touched on it.
https://www.travelpulse.com/news/air...r-the-airlines
I mean guys, let’s just stop and think about it. The judge made two comments here that was highlighted in this news article.
The judge made the comment he finds it very hard to believe in a permanent injunction.
but he also made the comment there needs to be more divestitures.
I mean, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say the transaction is going to go through but he’ll probably add some more gates or slots that we might have to give up. Hopefully not a whole lot.
https://www.travelpulse.com/news/air...r-the-airlines
I mean guys, let’s just stop and think about it. The judge made two comments here that was highlighted in this news article.
The judge made the comment he finds it very hard to believe in a permanent injunction.
but he also made the comment there needs to be more divestitures.
I mean, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say the transaction is going to go through but he’ll probably add some more gates or slots that we might have to give up. Hopefully not a whole lot.
I think that's right. He was looking for a way to make it work and address concerns. He asked JetBlue would you be open to more they said yes and the DOJ basically said
there is nothing that can be done to make us happy. My gut says like most people he wants a middle (ish) ground and I don't think the DOJ taking such a hardline approach helped them. Also the argument that if one route is impacted and harms travelers the whole thing should be shot down is crazy. I feel like the DOJ is being extremely academic and idealistic about this. But I'm not a judge or a lawyer heck I'm barely good at being a pilot.
12-07-2023, 09:47 AM
#417
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 246
Just tell JetBlue to fly the spirit model on those few routes that harm 1/3rd of the passengers onboard (must be profitable) until a ULCC is able to take it over. Problem solved.
Im sure it isnt that easy, but I sure wish it were.
Im sure it isnt that easy, but I sure wish it were.
12-07-2023, 09:49 AM
#418
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 393
you made some really good points. and I think this news article really touched on it.
https://www.travelpulse.com/news/air...r-the-airlines
I mean guys, let’s just stop and think about it. The judge made two comments here that was highlighted in this news article.
The judge made the comment he finds it very hard to believe in a permanent injunction.
but he also made the comment there needs to be more divestitures.
I mean, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say the transaction is going to go through but he’ll probably add some more gates or slots that we might have to give up. Hopefully not a whole lot.
https://www.travelpulse.com/news/air...r-the-airlines
I mean guys, let’s just stop and think about it. The judge made two comments here that was highlighted in this news article.
The judge made the comment he finds it very hard to believe in a permanent injunction.
but he also made the comment there needs to be more divestitures.
I mean, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say the transaction is going to go through but he’ll probably add some more gates or slots that we might have to give up. Hopefully not a whole lot.
It’s very unlikely this won’t go through.
12-07-2023, 09:51 AM
#419
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,233
just so I’m not getting confirmation bias. is there any article out there by a journalist out there that has a favorable view for the DOJ?
12-07-2023, 09:54 AM
#420
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 246
https://twitter.com/WilliamJMcGee
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