sullyhoover

FYI, we're not all like this. I'm rooting for b6 over f9 and if the merger goes through I'm looking forward to working with you guys. Just praying we keep those Midwest bases.

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Roy Biggins

A lot of bullish!t bickering going on for an agreement that hasn’t even been accepted yet…nor do you have much (if any) control over. I think I speak for most level headed JB pilots when I say this will make us stronger together. I think we could get one heck of a JCBA if this happens.

DEM1933

Isn't it true historically that a large portion of trans-atlantic revenue has been from freight in the belly? It's easy to find room down there in a wide body, not so much in a A321. Do the B6 321s have additional center tanks?

Desdi

There are more than a few ex heavy drivers at B6 with decades of experience flying the tracks as well as polar routes, the “Purpa” Himalayan route in their former lives (myself included) ….. u sure no one at B6 comes close to you? Try to dial down the arrogance.

Bluedriver

A great JCBA is my first priority, if this even happens. At the same time, I'm not going to the Spirit forum and telling their guys they should just accept 100% longevity.

Once everyone realizes, and speaks accordingly, that the arbitrator isn't going to give either side 100%, and that recent precedent is the almost certain outcome, we can focus on the important business of unifying around a great JCBA.
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BeatNavy

Pre-covid, cargo wasn’t all that lucrative. It’s good (necessary?) to offset the international trough days/months when loads aren’t great with the high cost of operating widebodies. The MoM (or 797), was supposedly being designed with very little cargo room (allegedly it was an ovoid fuselage shape, wider in the pax area and smaller below), and designed specifically for trans Atlantic. Covid has changed it, simply because there are fewer widebodies with belly space flying, but I’m not sure how long that will be the case.

As for B6 planes, the 3 ACTs on the LRs take up a ton of the belly space…not much room for cargo. Nor is there much exctra weight available. Same story with the XLR and its RCT (and I’m not sure if B6 will get the ACT on top of the RCT, but regardless it won’t have much extra space). I’m also not sure how much room the trans Atlantic 757s have for cargo relative to the 321LR/XLR, but I imagine it isn’t a whole lot. I think the idea of narrowbody medium haul is strictly pax, with a much lower cost to operate, and the belly space being sold isn’t needed to offset the operating cost like it is for widebodies.

Scott Laurence, prior to bailing for DL/AA, said that widebodies can be great and make money 5 days a week, but 2 days a week they can lose a ton of money and wipe out everything they made the other 5 days. I think cargo is one of the hedges there. If jetblue is going to get widebodies, they will have to resume cargo. They used to do cargo, and a few years ago (right before covid iirc?) they re-started it on a trial basis on one or two routes, but I haven’t heard anything since then. If they stick with LR/XLRs, I don’t think cargo is necessary or even possible.

Fah2

You’re right, and I’ll wager those that have a better understanding the leap required to create and sustain a widebody operation.

That particular part of the comment was directed at the B6 guys on the Spirit board who espouse that the handful of across the pond routes and the premise of possible future widebody fleets translates to Jet Blue being a fundamentally superior operation that Spirit could never aspire to. Both operations have successes as well as operational struggles that continue to this day.

I’ve done the dance between Lahore and Urumqi numerous times myself, and know what your screen name represents. I certainly don’t consider myself the only or the most experienced and that part of my comment came off wrong.

That being said, the possibility of one day being awarded a pairing that includes a LHR ranks pretty low compared to a CBA geared towards schedule flexibility and not having to commute.

emersonbiguns

Can anyone name a LCC or ULCC that has made the transatlantic a part of their route network and survived?

JulesWinfield

Doesn’t make a ton of sense. A better case for wide bodies in this model is Deep South America.

Desdi

Fair enough, and I agree with every word of what you just said!