JetBlue bids for Spirit Airlines
04-13-2022, 04:38 AM
#381
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 992
Wow. So defensive.
I have to remind myself there were jetBlue pilots on this very forum that were writing about and cheering VX pilots being hosed in a SLI.
B6 comments on B6/VX potential...
So bunker, since you're really vocal now on B6 and SAVE, you thought a VA guy hired in 2007 would be an outrage if placed next to a top senior B6 guy hired 1999/2000. So curious, where do you see yourself placing the top Spirit pilot, hired about 1992 in the B6 list? Is it still an outrage if the top B6 guy hired in 1999/2000 gets next to the top Spirit pilot hired ~1992?
Just curious. Because you had a problem with a VX guy in 2007 placed next to a 2000 hire at jetBlue.
Amazing how when it comes to your turn to get SLIed, the tables turn.
I have to remind myself there were jetBlue pilots on this very forum that were writing about and cheering VX pilots being hosed in a SLI.
B6 comments on B6/VX potential...
So bunker, since you're really vocal now on B6 and SAVE, you thought a VA guy hired in 2007 would be an outrage if placed next to a top senior B6 guy hired 1999/2000. So curious, where do you see yourself placing the top Spirit pilot, hired about 1992 in the B6 list? Is it still an outrage if the top B6 guy hired in 1999/2000 gets next to the top Spirit pilot hired ~1992?
Just curious. Because you had a problem with a VX guy in 2007 placed next to a 2000 hire at jetBlue.
Amazing how when it comes to your turn to get SLIed, the tables turn.
My position back then was based on limited understanding at the time on my part on how the process works. Especially within the ALPA to ALPA framework. Since those comments, I was a part of the B6 M&A committee, went through the training, reviewed several mergers, read many arbitration rulings and why/how they came up with their decisions. I see a lot of the same reasoning I had back then happening now. It's human nature when you don't understand the process more fully to not see why people from different airlines can be slotted next to each other and have several years of DOHs between them. Conversely, I can why someone on the other side wouldn't understand and be upset by potentially losing several % points in seniority when merged in. I'm not advocating in public what I WANT it to be one way or another. I'm only trying to pass on my mistakes and what I learned from my time on the committee.
Also, just for the record, both my position back then and now advocates for a higher % be attributed to DOH vs RS, even if my understanding and position was flawed in the post your quoted.
Last edited by BunkerF16; 04-13-2022 at 04:59 AM.
04-13-2022, 05:08 AM
#382
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,920
Wow. Reading the last 3-4 pages is just f’n sad. I was excited about B6. Seems like some of y’all are just pricks. The almighty JetBlue, we are just little Spirit pilots that should be so lucky that we have been blessed to be acquired by your little woke airline. I didn’t see any of these hostilities with the F9 guys. Hopefully that’s the route our board takes. Believe it or not, y’all need NK much more than we need you. NK has a plan, what’s yours without NK? That’s right you die. B6 goes away. Probably when DAL buys you. Bet you’ll want RSI then. I’d be in the top 10 @ NK for my last 10 years. I won’t see that with a B6 merger so cry me a River you can’t be number one. As if you can’t get exactly what you want at number 10, 20 or 30. Woke. That exactly what y’all sound like. Woke entitled little sh!ts. Please Jesus, let us merge with F9. I’ve seen enough.
you seem nice.
it’s the Internet relax.
04-13-2022, 06:00 AM
#384
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,295
And I didn’t disagree with that, but future QOL was specifically exluded as far as future orders go (AS/VA merger arbitration). I get it, life isn’t fair. My reply was specifically aimed at him for saying JB is a much better company than NK.
04-13-2022, 06:00 AM
#385
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 551
To be clear, NK does not have a plan. NK is getting bought by one of two airlines. Yes, one is a stock deal and one is a cash deal, but to say everything is absolutely peachy at NK isn’t a complete truth either. NK is NOT in the drivers seat, indigo and frontier are. The combined f9/nk is going to also have hurdles. B6 isn’t has screwed as you believe, it has cemented itself into very lucrative markets that have serious barriers to entry. It’s expanding into long haul flying over the Atlantic and is going for an arguable niche. Not to say that I am 100% confident in jetblue going forward, I just don’t think it’s on the verge of death as you believe. I think both the ULCC models and jetblue models have potential and have barriers going forward. Both airlines will struggle to recruit pilots going forward, though I believe jetblue has probably done a better job creating pipelines that are going to start yielding fruit. Neither will be an issue if congress eliminates the 1500 hour rule which is a can of worms in and of itself.
As for the wide body mirage (which has also lived rent free in the heads of many Nk pilots for years) there are really only two aircraft that would work for B6; the 787 or the 330neo. The 787 is the clear winner in terms of efficiency, the 330 provides some fleet commonality. But whatever, the point is both aircraft list for around $280 million each, if you can get delivery slots. Plus you need widebody gates, ground equipment (highloaders, cargo pods, tugs, etc).
A dozen of either would list for 3.4 billion, and we haven’t even talked about pilot, FA, maintenance, ramper training, whether landing slots for another US carrier are available in the target markets B6 would want…. Or the fact you don’t carry commercial cargo on your pax flights which help supplement smaller pax loads.
But your management didn’t spend (or announce their intention to spend) $3.6 billion on setting up long haul operations with an initial fleet of a dozen widebodies. They have the money as one of your colleagues emphasizes in every post “CASH”.
No instead they are spending that money on pilots, FA’s aircraft, routes, and orders that bolsters its existing business model in the national and narrow body range international market, which should tell you all you need to know about the direction your company intends to go.
It’s amusing to see B6 pilots in their forum talk about what a dumpster fire their operation is, then come over here and with their pinky in the air looking down their noses at NK. Sell the widebody/brand image dream somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
04-13-2022, 06:11 AM
#386
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,920
Cemented you say? Blue has a handful of routes on narrow bodies across the pond. The North Atlantic has been the prized cash cow of the legacies for decades, not to mention a dozen or so flag carriers from the other side of the pond. I’ve flown the organized track system more than any of your pilots, and all those voices on the HF should be reminders of the capacity they can dump on your routes at any time. It’s a niche, and it’s ok to be happy for some variety, but it’s fragile at best.
As for the wide body mirage (which has also lived rent free in the heads of many Nk pilots for years) there are really only two aircraft that would work for B6; the 787 or the 330neo. The 787 is the clear winner in terms of efficiency, the 330 provides some fleet commonality. But whatever, the point is both aircraft list for around $280 million each, if you can get delivery slots. Plus you need widebody gates, ground equipment (highloaders, cargo pods, tugs, etc).
A dozen of either would list for 3.4 billion, and we haven’t even talked about pilot, FA, maintenance, ramper training, whether landing slots for another US carrier are available in the target markets B6 would want…. Or the fact you don’t carry commercial cargo on your pax flights which help supplement smaller pax loads.
But your management didn’t spend (or announce their intention to spend) $3.6 billion on setting up long haul operations with an initial fleet of a dozen widebodies. They have the money as one of your colleagues emphasizes in every post “CASH”.
No instead they are spending that money on pilots, FA’s aircraft, routes, and orders that bolsters its existing business model in the national and narrow body range international market, which should tell you all you need to know about the direction your company intends to go.
It’s amusing to see B6 pilots in their forum talk about what a dumpster fire their operation is, then come over here and with their pinky in the air looking down their noses at NK. Sell the widebody/brand image dream somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
As for the wide body mirage (which has also lived rent free in the heads of many Nk pilots for years) there are really only two aircraft that would work for B6; the 787 or the 330neo. The 787 is the clear winner in terms of efficiency, the 330 provides some fleet commonality. But whatever, the point is both aircraft list for around $280 million each, if you can get delivery slots. Plus you need widebody gates, ground equipment (highloaders, cargo pods, tugs, etc).
A dozen of either would list for 3.4 billion, and we haven’t even talked about pilot, FA, maintenance, ramper training, whether landing slots for another US carrier are available in the target markets B6 would want…. Or the fact you don’t carry commercial cargo on your pax flights which help supplement smaller pax loads.
But your management didn’t spend (or announce their intention to spend) $3.6 billion on setting up long haul operations with an initial fleet of a dozen widebodies. They have the money as one of your colleagues emphasizes in every post “CASH”.
No instead they are spending that money on pilots, FA’s aircraft, routes, and orders that bolsters its existing business model in the national and narrow body range international market, which should tell you all you need to know about the direction your company intends to go.
It’s amusing to see B6 pilots in their forum talk about what a dumpster fire their operation is, then come over here and with their pinky in the air looking down their noses at NK. Sell the widebody/brand image dream somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
04-13-2022, 06:22 AM
#387
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,905
Cemented you say? Blue has a handful of routes on narrow bodies across the pond. The North Atlantic has been the prized cash cow of the legacies for decades, not to mention a dozen or so flag carriers from the other side of the pond. I’ve flown the organized track system more than any of your pilots, and all those voices on the HF should be reminders of the capacity they can dump on your routes at any time. It’s a niche, and it’s ok to be happy for some variety, but it’s fragile at best.
As for the wide body mirage (which has also lived rent free in the heads of many Nk pilots for years) there are really only two aircraft that would work for B6; the 787 or the 330neo. The 787 is the clear winner in terms of efficiency, the 330 provides some fleet commonality. But whatever, the point is both aircraft list for around $280 million each, if you can get delivery slots. Plus you need widebody gates, ground equipment (highloaders, cargo pods, tugs, etc).
A dozen of either would list for 3.4 billion, and we haven’t even talked about pilot, FA, maintenance, ramper training, whether landing slots for another US carrier are available in the target markets B6 would want…. Or the fact you don’t carry commercial cargo on your pax flights which help supplement smaller pax loads.
But your management didn’t spend (or announce their intention to spend) $3.6 billion on setting up long haul operations with an initial fleet of a dozen widebodies. They have the money as one of your colleagues emphasizes in every post “CASH”.
No instead they are spending that money on pilots, FA’s aircraft, routes, and orders that bolsters its existing business model in the national and narrow body range international market, which should tell you all you need to know about the direction your company intends to go.
It’s amusing to see B6 pilots in their forum talk about what a dumpster fire their operation is, then come over here and with their pinky in the air looking down their noses at NK. Sell the widebody/brand image dream somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
As for the wide body mirage (which has also lived rent free in the heads of many Nk pilots for years) there are really only two aircraft that would work for B6; the 787 or the 330neo. The 787 is the clear winner in terms of efficiency, the 330 provides some fleet commonality. But whatever, the point is both aircraft list for around $280 million each, if you can get delivery slots. Plus you need widebody gates, ground equipment (highloaders, cargo pods, tugs, etc).
A dozen of either would list for 3.4 billion, and we haven’t even talked about pilot, FA, maintenance, ramper training, whether landing slots for another US carrier are available in the target markets B6 would want…. Or the fact you don’t carry commercial cargo on your pax flights which help supplement smaller pax loads.
But your management didn’t spend (or announce their intention to spend) $3.6 billion on setting up long haul operations with an initial fleet of a dozen widebodies. They have the money as one of your colleagues emphasizes in every post “CASH”.
No instead they are spending that money on pilots, FA’s aircraft, routes, and orders that bolsters its existing business model in the national and narrow body range international market, which should tell you all you need to know about the direction your company intends to go.
It’s amusing to see B6 pilots in their forum talk about what a dumpster fire their operation is, then come over here and with their pinky in the air looking down their noses at NK. Sell the widebody/brand image dream somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
04-13-2022, 06:25 AM
#388
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,905
So no, a 100% relative seniority merger where guys hired years after you are slotted in front of you DOES materially harm JB pilots, and it won't happen.
04-13-2022, 06:31 AM
#389
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Wow. Reading the last 3-4 pages is just f’n sad. I was excited about B6. Seems like some of y’all are just pricks. The almighty JetBlue, we are just little Spirit pilots that should be so lucky that we have been blessed to be acquired by your little woke airline. I didn’t see any of these hostilities with the F9 guys. Hopefully that’s the route our board takes. Believe it or not, y’all need NK much more than we need you. NK has a plan, what’s yours without NK? That’s right you die. B6 goes away. Probably when DAL buys you. Bet you’ll want RSI then. I’d be in the top 10 @ NK for my last 10 years. I won’t see that with a B6 merger so cry me a River you can’t be number one. As if you can’t get exactly what you want at number 10, 20 or 30. Woke. That exactly what y’all sound like. Woke entitled little sh!ts. Please Jesus, let us merge with F9. I’ve seen enough.
04-13-2022, 06:33 AM
#390
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Cemented you say? Blue has a handful of routes on narrow bodies across the pond. The North Atlantic has been the prized cash cow of the legacies for decades, not to mention a dozen or so flag carriers from the other side of the pond. I’ve flown the organized track system more than any of your pilots, and all those voices on the HF should be reminders of the capacity they can dump on your routes at any time. It’s a niche, and it’s ok to be happy for some variety, but it’s fragile at best.
As for the wide body mirage (which has also lived rent free in the heads of many Nk pilots for years) there are really only two aircraft that would work for B6; the 787 or the 330neo. The 787 is the clear winner in terms of efficiency, the 330 provides some fleet commonality. But whatever, the point is both aircraft list for around $280 million each, if you can get delivery slots. Plus you need widebody gates, ground equipment (highloaders, cargo pods, tugs, etc).
A dozen of either would list for 3.4 billion, and we haven’t even talked about pilot, FA, maintenance, ramper training, whether landing slots for another US carrier are available in the target markets B6 would want…. Or the fact you don’t carry commercial cargo on your pax flights which help supplement smaller pax loads.
But your management didn’t spend (or announce their intention to spend) $3.6 billion on setting up long haul operations with an initial fleet of a dozen widebodies. They have the money as one of your colleagues emphasizes in every post “CASH”.
No instead they are spending that money on pilots, FA’s aircraft, routes, and orders that bolsters its existing business model in the national and narrow body range international market, which should tell you all you need to know about the direction your company intends to go.
It’s amusing to see B6 pilots in their forum talk about what a dumpster fire their operation is, then come over here and with their pinky in the air looking down their noses at NK. Sell the widebody/brand image dream somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
As for the wide body mirage (which has also lived rent free in the heads of many Nk pilots for years) there are really only two aircraft that would work for B6; the 787 or the 330neo. The 787 is the clear winner in terms of efficiency, the 330 provides some fleet commonality. But whatever, the point is both aircraft list for around $280 million each, if you can get delivery slots. Plus you need widebody gates, ground equipment (highloaders, cargo pods, tugs, etc).
A dozen of either would list for 3.4 billion, and we haven’t even talked about pilot, FA, maintenance, ramper training, whether landing slots for another US carrier are available in the target markets B6 would want…. Or the fact you don’t carry commercial cargo on your pax flights which help supplement smaller pax loads.
But your management didn’t spend (or announce their intention to spend) $3.6 billion on setting up long haul operations with an initial fleet of a dozen widebodies. They have the money as one of your colleagues emphasizes in every post “CASH”.
No instead they are spending that money on pilots, FA’s aircraft, routes, and orders that bolsters its existing business model in the national and narrow body range international market, which should tell you all you need to know about the direction your company intends to go.
It’s amusing to see B6 pilots in their forum talk about what a dumpster fire their operation is, then come over here and with their pinky in the air looking down their noses at NK. Sell the widebody/brand image dream somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
