Originally Posted by SpeedBrakes

Buddy was on a JB flight a few Sundays ago, out of JFK. Flight was delayed for 5hrs and they never gave a reason. Come to find out they were missing a pilot. Had to call in a reserve pilot. Never told the passengers. Instead, Robin Hayes comes out and blames the delay (and other delays that weekend) on weather. Delta had 2% cancellation and flying the same routes.
Spirit does the same type of PR with the public (blames everything on weather). This will be a match made in Heaven!

Maybe one day Billy Nolan or even better, his boss, Mayor Pete, will start addressing and fixing this mess.

Originally Posted by Flyby1206

Agree 100%, everyone will be upset at the arbitration SLI results (at least that’s how you know it was done right). Instead let’s get a JCBA we can all be happy with.

Originally Posted by BeatNavy

even a 50/50 or 60/40 SLI would be a huge windfall for spirit guys. Guys have left spirit for jetblue over the years. It’s happened even since covid. I have never heard of any jetblue guy leaving for spirit (not saying it’s never happened, but if it has, it’s exceedingly rare). There’s a reason for that. So now spirit guys will transport really good seniority, even if they lose a little with DOH factored in, to what is considered by most a better airline/career.

Objectively that is the case looking only at CBAs, but when you throw in the fact that the business model they would integrate into is more of a full service airline attempting to gain a global presence, which will likely get widebodies, it’s even more the case. Career expectations wise of NK pilots have about a zero percent chance of getting widebodies as is or with an F9 merger. For SLI arbitration purposes, same goes for B6 pilots since there’s none currently on order. But the LR/XLRs being delivered are/were basically going to be the litmus test for a widebody order. If the B6/NK merger is approved, I doubt the NEA continues, then jetblue is a 8000+ pilot group, with more LR data, and a WB order will likely be placed imo. And all the NK guys sliding ahead of all the B6 guys will be the beneficiaries of that. As it is today, I’d retire around #100. Assuming B6’s current trajectory, I’d be sitting pretty for a long time, and if/when a WB order ever came, I’d likely be able to benefit from it greatly, either by getting WB rates or by getting a lot more senior with guys above me moving over. That’s going to get absolutely blown up even with a 50:50 or 60:40 SLI, and, depending on how it goes, I may never be as senior as I would if we stayed B6 pure. From a career expectations standpoint on paper, none of that is factored into an SLI, but has a much greater than 0 probability of happening.

I’m not bent out of shape about how (I think) this would go, and I hope a forced JCBA, new bases, more orders, a good pilot group, etc would have a good benefit to the combined entity that would make up for/more than make up for my lost seniority. But the career expectations for NK pilots are a lot better with this merger than with F9 merger (ie they get a lot more guys behind them with a better career outlook), and the B6 career expectations fall with regard to getting a lot more younger guys becoming senior to them. I think that’s why we see these arguments online a lot more than we saw them with the NK/F9 announcement. I think an AS/B6 SLI would be a lot more amicable, like I also think an NK/F9 SLI would be. We are all biased and try to justify why we should be better off. At the end of the day though, we are all just along for the ride and need to make the best of whatever happens and be good to each other, with or without this merger.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Yeah, no. You won't just "keep your relative seniority". You weren't hired by JetBlue back in the day, you were hired by Spirit. And those orders and fun math you've done about the NEXT 5 years, they weren't real, they were a mirage, because as much as you "planned" on them, they were never real as Spirit was to be sold (probably), you just didn't know it.

So you are not just going to skip the line at JB, and jump in front of hundreds, if not 1,000+ that were hired at JB long before you. Based on 60/40 you will still get in front of some, unfortunately, and that will have to be good enough for you.

And JB isn't returning 90 E190s. They only have 60, and they are being replaced by 100 A220s that pay more than your A320.

Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18

Can't take credit for this I stole it. This is what a swa/at style integration would look like.

top 924 slots go to JB pilots.
The next 44 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 407 JB pilots.
The next 80 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 758 JB pilots.
The next 223 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 1131 JB pilots.
The first 54 VA FOs are ratio'd with the next 80 JB pilots.
The rest of the 199 VA FOs are stapled to the bottom of the JB FO list.
The pilots hired at JB after the merger is announced are next.
The pilots hired at VA after the merger is announced are next.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by BunkerF16

Assuming 3300 JB pilots and 650 VA pilots

Add a 5 year fence and I think it's pretty decent look at what the integration would end up looking like.

Originally Posted by grim04

All I'm saying is there is a precedent we can use with the arbitrator that is not DOH but a seniority integration starting at there first ever hire in 2007 and go from there. With a fence to protect both sides for at least 5 years. I'm below 2007 so this isn't personal. Our top 1500 guys need protections period. Our 190 guys need protection.

Originally Posted by grim04

Cleanest? How you figure sport? If you mean clean like swa ata or swap airtran. You start the integration at jb 2007 hire with a 5 to 1 after that then yeah. But anything else no way. This is an acquisition not a merger.

Originally Posted by BunkerF16

What's so classless? No one is advocating a 100% staple job. No one is saying, "Give em preferential interviews".....there's going to be an integration, but it's not going to be pure relative seniority either.

Do you really think a guy from VA with top 5% seniority hired in 2007/8 should be slotted in the top 150 at JB? Really?

I get there's going to be hurt feelings over this...there always are....but take emotion of this and look at it objectively......

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Yeah, no. You won't just "keep your relative seniority". You weren't hired by JetBlue back in the day, you were hired by Spirit. And those orders and fun math you've done about the NEXT 5 years, they weren't real, they were a mirage, because as much as you "planned" on them, they were never real as Spirit was to be sold (probably), you just didn't know it.

So you are not just going to skip the line at JB, and jump in front of hundreds, if not 1,000+ that were hired at JB long before you. Based on 60/40 you will still get in front of some, unfortunately, and that will have to be good enough for you.

And JB isn't returning 90 E190s. They only have 60, and they are being replaced by 100 A220s that pay more than your A320.

Originally Posted by ShyGuy

Wow. So defensive.


I have to remind myself there were jetBlue pilots on this very forum that were writing about and cheering VX pilots being hosed in a SLI.


B6 comments on B6/VX potential...






















So bunker, since you're really vocal now on B6 and SAVE, you thought a VA guy hired in 2007 would be an outrage if placed next to a top senior B6 guy hired 1999/2000. So curious, where do you see yourself placing the top Spirit pilot, hired about 1992 in the B6 list? Is it still an outrage if the top B6 guy hired in 1999/2000 gets next to the top Spirit pilot hired ~1992?

Just curious. Because you had a problem with a VX guy in 2007 placed next to a 2000 hire at jetBlue.

Amazing how when it comes to your turn to get SLIed, the tables turn.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

The hostility you see is a direct response to your guys expecting straight relative seniority. And mostly no acceptance of a 60-40, or even a 50-50.

On the other hand, I would prefer a straight longevity, yet I have said repeatedly that I would accept the AS/VA 60-40. That's called compromise. I've made it, other JB have made it, yet your guys still demand full relative and demand to skip the line by hundreds or 1,000+ at JB. So yeah, faced with that, you get hostility.

Originally Posted by mavsfflife

Forget about the JCBA, let’s keep arguing for 38 pages about an SLI that you have no control over. Fun.

Originally Posted by IWalkJun12

Wow. Reading the last 3-4 pages is just f’n sad. I was excited about B6. Seems like some of y’all are just pricks. The almighty JetBlue, we are just little Spirit pilots that should be so lucky that we have been blessed to be acquired by your little woke airline. I didn’t see any of these hostilities with the F9 guys. Hopefully that’s the route our board takes. Believe it or not, y’all need NK much more than we need you. NK has a plan, what’s yours without NK? That’s right you die. B6 goes away. Probably when DAL buys you. Bet you’ll want RSI then. I’d be in the top 10 @ NK for my last 10 years. I won’t see that with a B6 merger so cry me a River you can’t be number one. As if you can’t get exactly what you want at number 10, 20 or 30. Woke. That exactly what y’all sound like. Woke entitled little sh!ts. Please Jesus, let us merge with F9. I’ve seen enough.