chucknorris

I sit at ~35% on the seniority list. I retire #1 on the B6 seniority list. Straight RS I’d be lucky to break the top 300. Tell me how RS doesn’t have a career effect on me.

Straight RS Spirit pilots almost exclusively own the top 10% of the seniority list for close to a decade, and take advantage of B6 retirements which happen in droves starting later this decade. The only way I’m not screwed long term by this integration, if it happens, is straight longevity. This I’ll agree is a non starter. Considering the ALPA merger policy, longevity and RS will both be a factor in a new list, as it should be. No one wants another Us Air America West fiasco. Some Spirit guys might slide a bit at first but would more then make up for it longer term.

Chimpy

It’s not going to be straight RS, or DOH, and it’ll be arbitrated, why are you guys wasting your time arguing…

BunkerF16

i meant 12, you’re right.

BunkerF16

You make the best decision you can with the information you have at the time. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it doesn't. With you getting hired at NK in 2013, even with a 60/40 DOH/RS decision you'd loose relative seniority, but you'd be merged in with 2007 B6 pilots. Both sides equally annoyed. Exactly what you can expect in the end.

nuball5

Pick your poison. Obviously being on the JetBlue seniority list I’d prefer DOH, but even with 100% relative seniority I pretty much stay status quo. Yes it would be a little jarring at first to see Spirit pilots around your seniority that were hired at Spirit a few years after you. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and realize you’re still not losing seniority and we’re taking in a great pilot group. There’s no perfect option.

Excargodog

Yep, and sometimes you need to just count your blessings. This really is a great environment for pilot groups to make gains and a JCBA and the pilot shortage forces management to come to the table with viable offers promptly and not drag things out half a decade (as usual under the RLA). And the Airbus orders are on the books and those aircraft are going to keep coming, meaning the pilot group will continue to grow, meaning that same relative seniority gives you access to far more options, more trips to far more destinations, including international flying to Europe and Central America, heck maybe So. America and Hawaii eventually. And it ought to create a company whose economies of scale make it more efficient and less prone to IROPS. A company that can afford a better contract and better benefits and pay.

Are any of these things guaranteed? No, but what in life is. But it is an opportunity and one we can choose to take advantage of - especially if the MECs can work together effectively to make it so.

Viewing it as a negative seems a little short-sighted.

Bluedriver

The info is in this forum, so maybe you didn't read all the posts or don't understand how this all works?

Pilots hired at Spirit years after you are statistically younger. So yes, having guys hired years after you at Spirit slotted in front of you based on relative seniority DOES affect your future seniority greatly. Your future progression up the seniority list slows and even stops, as you will never retire as senior as you would have. The AK/VA arbitration makes it clear that straight relative seniority will not fly, and longevity is weighed just as much or specifically in that case, more.

Bluedriver

Agree with all.

nuball5

Yes I read it. I don’t expect it to go 100% relative seniority, just saying if it leaned that way I don’t think it wouldn’t be catastrophic like some think. It’s all a gamble. Yes you’ll end up retiring more junior with this merger like you said but what are the other options and are they better? We try and continue as a standalone airline without much of a plan or identity? Either way it’ll go the way of Alaska/Virgin or a 50/50 split is my guess.

Hopefully this will quell the desire I hear of when will United come in and save us, if a SLI with Spirit is causing this much anxiety. (Not from you, just in general).

Bluedriver

I hear ya. The reason why I quoted you is because you said "but even with 100% relative seniority I pretty much stay status quo". Which is definitively untrue. I just don't want that narrative or sentiment to go unchallenged. Not everyone understands the implications of that beyond 1 bid month.

I don't know that Spirit is the best dance partner, but there aren't many dance partners left, and some are unwilling... So, it's probably better than no partner, maybe. Not sure why none of the analysts can see the vision at all.