JetBlue bids for Spirit Airlines
04-11-2022, 06:29 AM
#301
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 993
Grousing about things past?
It would seem more productive to realize that if this goes through there is a JCBA coming that management MUST HAVE. That’s a reversal of the usual dynamic where management gains the more they drag this out, and THEY have initiated this one. And they have already conceded that they are going to have to up the ante to the pilots to get that JCBA signed.
This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity for market forces, time constraints, and management needs to allow QOL, work rule, and pay scale improvements that wouldn’t have otherwise been possible. This time time is on the side of the union.
Time to close ranks, stop grousing about SLIs that are going to be decided by moderators in any event, and work out a JCBA that will combine the best work rules of both airlines AND THEN BUILD FURTHER ON THOSE, with the best benefits and pay scales in the industry. If management wants this, they will have to pay for it.
It would seem more productive to realize that if this goes through there is a JCBA coming that management MUST HAVE. That’s a reversal of the usual dynamic where management gains the more they drag this out, and THEY have initiated this one. And they have already conceded that they are going to have to up the ante to the pilots to get that JCBA signed.
This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity for market forces, time constraints, and management needs to allow QOL, work rule, and pay scale improvements that wouldn’t have otherwise been possible. This time time is on the side of the union.
Time to close ranks, stop grousing about SLIs that are going to be decided by moderators in any event, and work out a JCBA that will combine the best work rules of both airlines AND THEN BUILD FURTHER ON THOSE, with the best benefits and pay scales in the industry. If management wants this, they will have to pay for it.
04-11-2022, 07:32 AM
#302
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,905
04-11-2022, 08:14 AM
#304
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,145
I’ll guess 50/50. Alaska had substantially more longevity than VA. More “sweat equity” in the surviving company as described in the award. Much more so than B6 over NK. Precedence is set yes but not necessarily longevity %. That number is more than likely going to be merger specific imo. It really kind of has to be.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 04-11-2022 at 08:31 AM.
04-11-2022, 08:20 AM
#306
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,905
So AK had more longevity, so the arbitrator placed more emphasis on it? Doesn't make sense. I think longevity simply holds more weight. Gonna be interesting as the top 80-90 Spirit guys will want DOH.
04-11-2022, 08:28 AM
#307
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,145
More like they contributed more to the overall structure of the surviving company so a larger emphasis was placed on longevity. The arbitrator mentions this multi times and even highlights the vast difference.
04-11-2022, 09:39 AM
#308
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,522
JetBlue bids for Spirit Airlines
Longevity doesn’t really mean anything Against relative seniority. If you’re B6 and 50%. As long as you stay 50%. It’s fair. Who cares if a 3 year guy is same 50% with you. And your a 7 year guy. NK guys is 50% at his company and you’re 50 at yours. You should both stay at 50ish. That’s the most reasonable expectation. No one is losing anything
Allow me, if you will, to quote from the Alaska/VA SLI opinion and award.
“F. Relative Seniority
Relative seniority, in various guises, involves determining a pilot’s relative position on his pre-merger seniority list and trying to duplicate that position on the merged list. Described another way, if a pilot is at the 50th percentile on the pre-merger list, the goal of relative seniority is to place the pilot at the 50th percentile of the new list. While relative seniority has surfaced from time to time in previous pilot seniority integration arbitration disputes, the concept is not a mandatory factor under the ALPA policy and has not been adopted as a critical factor in any previous pilot seniority list integrations involving major carriers. Relative seniority contradicts the concept of longevity. While the Board considered the relative seniority charts that are part of the record in this case, the Board concludes that relative seniority is not a significant consideration in determining the method for merging the Alaska and Virgin America lists.”
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04-11-2022, 09:47 AM
#309
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,190
Allow me, if you will, to quote from the Alaska/VA SLI opinion and award.
“F. Relative Seniority
Relative seniority, in various guises, involves determining a pilot’s relative position on his pre-merger seniority list and trying to duplicate that position on the merged list. Described another way, if a pilot is at the 50th percentile on the pre-merger list, the goal of relative seniority is to place the pilot at the 50th percentile of the new list. While relative seniority has surfaced from time to time in previous pilot seniority integration arbitration disputes, the concept is not a mandatory factor under the ALPA policy and has not been adopted as a critical factor in any previous pilot seniority list integrations involving major carriers. Relative seniority contradicts the concept of longevity. While the Board considered the relative seniority charts that are part of the record in this case, the Board concludes that relative seniority is not a significant consideration in determining the method for merging the Alaska and Virgin America lists.”
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“F. Relative Seniority
Relative seniority, in various guises, involves determining a pilot’s relative position on his pre-merger seniority list and trying to duplicate that position on the merged list. Described another way, if a pilot is at the 50th percentile on the pre-merger list, the goal of relative seniority is to place the pilot at the 50th percentile of the new list. While relative seniority has surfaced from time to time in previous pilot seniority integration arbitration disputes, the concept is not a mandatory factor under the ALPA policy and has not been adopted as a critical factor in any previous pilot seniority list integrations involving major carriers. Relative seniority contradicts the concept of longevity. While the Board considered the relative seniority charts that are part of the record in this case, the Board concludes that relative seniority is not a significant consideration in determining the method for merging the Alaska and Virgin America lists.”
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04-11-2022, 09:52 AM
#310
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,522
JetBlue bids for Spirit Airlines
Agreed. I just think there is not a lot of understanding of what the alpa merger policy actually is and is not.
Alaska also had the jcba arbitration language, which in reality probably moved the entire process forward more quickly than a straight jcba negotiation, and it still took 2.5 years until SLI was complete. We have a very long way to go here.
They also weren’t trying to merge two cba’s. They basically just adopted alaskas.
Our jcba process will most likely be a little more difficult to slug through but we also hold much more leverage for improvements than Alaska/VA did.
I expect a great JCBA on par with legacies.
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