JetBlue bids for Spirit Airlines
04-10-2022, 08:03 PM
#291
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 325
Some of the 3.6B was debt financed by Goldman Sachs to fund this transaction with Spirit, so it’s not money they can freely spend. A 30 million dollar transaction for the LOA is a drop in the bucket to them. I don’t think they were patiently waiting for the LOA 17 results to see how much money left they had in their piggy bank to buy Spirit. Also the 3.6B offer didn’t occur on April 5th, the day after the vote, it was only made public then.
Whatever mental gymnastics make you feel better about selling us all out for 5/hr.
04-11-2022, 03:14 AM
#293
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 91
Longevity doesn’t really mean anything Against relative seniority. If you’re B6 and 50%. As long as you stay 50%. It’s fair. Who cares if a 3 year guy is same 50% with you. And your a 7 year guy. NK guys is 50% at his company and you’re 50 at yours. You should both stay at 50ish. That’s the most reasonable expectation. No one is losing anything
Because the three year Spirit guy/gal is, on average, 4 years younger than the 7 year Jetblue guy. That is on average so please don't get into semantics. That ruins the seniority progression of the Jetblue guy/gal. If that Jetblue pilot is 440(10%) on the Jetblue list and nobody younger than him in front, he will retire number one. In comes 300 Spirit(10%) ahead of him. 220 possibly younger.
04-11-2022, 04:38 AM
#295
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,905
Because the three year Spirit guy/gal is, on average, 4 years younger than the 7 year Jetblue guy. That is on average so please don't get into semantics. That ruins the seniority progression of the Jetblue guy/gal. If that Jetblue pilot is 440(10%) on the Jetblue list and nobody younger than him in front, he will retire number one. In comes 300 Spirit(10%) ahead of him. 220 possibly younger.
04-11-2022, 05:05 AM
#296
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 992
It’ll start at 50/50 DOH/RS and adjust from there. My guess is closer to AK/VA since precedence has already been set that longevity is viewed as more important, especially among like Airlines.
Last edited by BunkerF16; 04-11-2022 at 05:06 AM. Reason: Spelling
04-11-2022, 05:54 AM
#297
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 325
Some of the 3.6B was debt financed by Goldman Sachs to fund this transaction with Spirit, so it’s not money they can freely spend. A 30 million dollar transaction for the LOA is a drop in the bucket to them. I don’t think they were patiently waiting for the LOA 17 results to see how much money left they had in their piggy bank to buy Spirit. Also the 3.6B offer didn’t occur on April 5th, the day after the vote, it was only made public then.
The vote placed thier plans at risk. Just like us, the company had no idea what penalties the arbitrator would have imposed, or how much they would have to pay us to make it happen. If our group had sent it back with a 90% no vote I'm confident this purchase offer would be very different if made at all.
Key word in your argument is SOME of this is financed through debt. Meaning a substantial amount of this $3.6 BILLION is coming from a war chest. You say that the offer was made before the vote, yet everything I've read says that NK, and everyone else was surprised by it, and that it was made after the vote. Certainly they had secured the debt, and drawn up an offer before the vote, but they made the offer after our group folded.
Again the only reason we work for less in so many ways is that our group agrees to it.
04-11-2022, 06:08 AM
#298
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,005
Ok fine. I assumed with you not understanding the concept of working capital you were a yes voter. Sorry about that.
The vote placed thier plans at risk. Just like us, the company had no idea what penalties the arbitrator would have imposed, or how much they would have to pay us to make it happen. If our group had sent it back with a 90% no vote I'm confident this purchase offer would be very different if made at all.
Key word in your argument is SOME of this is financed through debt. Meaning a substantial amount of this $3.6 BILLION is coming from a war chest. You say that the offer was made before the vote, yet everything I've read says that NK, and everyone else was surprised by it, and that it was made after the vote. Certainly they had secured the debt, and drawn up an offer before the vote, but they made the offer after our group folded.
Again the only reason we work for less in so many ways is that our group agrees to it.
The vote placed thier plans at risk. Just like us, the company had no idea what penalties the arbitrator would have imposed, or how much they would have to pay us to make it happen. If our group had sent it back with a 90% no vote I'm confident this purchase offer would be very different if made at all.
Key word in your argument is SOME of this is financed through debt. Meaning a substantial amount of this $3.6 BILLION is coming from a war chest. You say that the offer was made before the vote, yet everything I've read says that NK, and everyone else was surprised by it, and that it was made after the vote. Certainly they had secured the debt, and drawn up an offer before the vote, but they made the offer after our group folded.
Again the only reason we work for less in so many ways is that our group agrees to it.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree that we’d be in the same position today trying to buy Spirit regardless of how LOA 17 went down then.
04-11-2022, 06:21 AM
#299
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,798
Well Robin said on the most recent pocket session that he made the offer a week prior to it getting leaked publicly. That would also be about a week prior to the LOA 17 result. I’m sure you’ll come back and say he was lying about that or something, which is fine I really don’t care.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree that we’d be in the same position today trying to buy Spirit regardless of how LOA 17 went down then.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree that we’d be in the same position today trying to buy Spirit regardless of how LOA 17 went down then.
It would seem more productive to realize that if this goes through there is a JCBA coming that management MUST HAVE. That’s a reversal of the usual dynamic where management gains the more they drag this out, and THEY have initiated this one. And they have already conceded that they are going to have to up the ante to the pilots to get that JCBA signed.
This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity for market forces, time constraints, and management needs to allow QOL, work rule, and pay scale improvements that wouldn’t have otherwise been possible. This time time is on the side of the union.
Time to close ranks, stop grousing about SLIs that are going to be decided by moderators in any event, and work out a JCBA that will combine the best work rules of both airlines AND THEN BUILD FURTHER ON THOSE, with the best benefits and pay scales in the industry. If management wants this, they will have to pay for it.
04-11-2022, 06:28 AM
#300
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,005
Grousing about things past?
It would seem more productive to realize that if this goes through there is a JCBA coming that management MUST HAVE. That’s a reversal of the usual dynamic where management gains the more they drag this out, and THEY have initiated this one. And they have already conceded that they are going to have to up the ante to the pilots to get that JCBA signed.
This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity for market forces, time constraints, and management needs to allow QOL, work rule, and pay scale improvements that wouldn’t have otherwise been possible. This time time is on the side of the union.
Time to close ranks, stop grousing about SLIs that are going to be decided by moderators in any event, and work out a JCBA that will combine the best work rules of both airlines AND THEN BUILD FURTHER ON THOSE, with the best benefits and pay scales in the industry. If management wants this, they will have to pay for it.
It would seem more productive to realize that if this goes through there is a JCBA coming that management MUST HAVE. That’s a reversal of the usual dynamic where management gains the more they drag this out, and THEY have initiated this one. And they have already conceded that they are going to have to up the ante to the pilots to get that JCBA signed.
This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity for market forces, time constraints, and management needs to allow QOL, work rule, and pay scale improvements that wouldn’t have otherwise been possible. This time time is on the side of the union.
Time to close ranks, stop grousing about SLIs that are going to be decided by moderators in any event, and work out a JCBA that will combine the best work rules of both airlines AND THEN BUILD FURTHER ON THOSE, with the best benefits and pay scales in the industry. If management wants this, they will have to pay for it.
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