JetBlue bids for Spirit Airlines
04-08-2022, 05:06 PM
#232
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,906
Let’s see
jb guys want longevity
spirit guys want relative
Both will be disappointed and it will be some combo of both.
Seems many on here have no idea how any of this works, or any knowledge of alpa merger policy, and recent merger history.
Good news is the Airways debacle set up a pretty straight forward process for mergers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
jb guys want longevity
spirit guys want relative
Both will be disappointed and it will be some combo of both.
Seems many on here have no idea how any of this works, or any knowledge of alpa merger policy, and recent merger history.
Good news is the Airways debacle set up a pretty straight forward process for mergers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
A staple will never happen nor is it fair. Relative seniority isn’t really much more fair either for the Jetblue guys. No wonder the spirit guys want that. I too would want that if I was in spirit. Even spirit straight DOH would be a gift to the spirit group. Let’s call it for what it is. Bases not a factor Jetblue is the more desirable airline. Throw rocks at me if you will but it’s always been easier to get a call from spirit than Jetblue. If you give a regional pilot applying to both an option most if not all would choose Jetblue (again base not a factor). Outside of the seldom few that leave for a base the tiers have always been Fedex,UPS, Delta, United at 1 with American and southwest at 1b. Tier 2 was Jetblue and Alaska. Tier 3 has been the frontier and spirit and Atlas. After those came the remaining airlines.
If someone wants to argue against that then that’s fine. How many Jetblue guys going to spirit? I know a few spirit at JetBlue. I don’t say that with any diminishing of people happy at spirit, but as many in Jetblue if United or delta has acquired us I wouldn’t be happy about losing seniority but I wouldn’t deny is a better place.
Also to the post about Jetblue money and how much money spirit makes… Jetblue is acquiring spirit (not that that plays any into a seniority Integration but it should) CASH.
Of course the spirit pilots here would say relative seniority should be it. That way the 2015 pilot could be senior to the JetBlue 2007 pilot. At straight DOH the JetBlue pilot had to have higher qualifications to get the call and his company purchased the other and converted their airline but of course the spirit pilot would argue they should be more senior.
If someone wants to argue against that then that’s fine. How many Jetblue guys going to spirit? I know a few spirit at JetBlue. I don’t say that with any diminishing of people happy at spirit, but as many in Jetblue if United or delta has acquired us I wouldn’t be happy about losing seniority but I wouldn’t deny is a better place.
Also to the post about Jetblue money and how much money spirit makes… Jetblue is acquiring spirit (not that that plays any into a seniority Integration but it should) CASH.
Of course the spirit pilots here would say relative seniority should be it. That way the 2015 pilot could be senior to the JetBlue 2007 pilot. At straight DOH the JetBlue pilot had to have higher qualifications to get the call and his company purchased the other and converted their airline but of course the spirit pilot would argue they should be more senior.
Acquiring and cash is irrelevant. It's an ALPA-ALPA merger so the ALPA merger policy applies. I'd take a quick glance at the merger policy, and then honestly - let it go. After going through two mergers, two JCBAs, and two binding SLIs, the best advice I have is to sit back and let the process play out. And don't make my mistake, get emotional on the forums about it. At the end of the day if it goes to binding arbitration then the final result will be binding and no amounts of complaining will fix it. So why get the blood pressure up on something you can't even control?
04-08-2022, 05:19 PM
#233
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 97
No hate here whatsoever. But I think the schedule work rules are going to blow at B6. I could care less about a $20 an hour pay bump. Seems like whoever grabs us we are losing QOL. I’m a 64 to 68ish he a month guy. This is a typical schedule for me 68:36 with 18 days off. I have dropped trips back to the company 3 times so far this month rearranging and tweaking my schedule. From what I’m hearing those days will be long gone with B6. Haven’t even looked to much at things like trip footprint base return and added flying on last day. Just not seeing much benefit for a few bucks an hour.
JB is very much the opposite—you’re way less likely to hear anyone talking about how many days off they got—first thing my bros and I talk about when catching up is how many credit hours we’re at and what insane magic we’ve worked with VDA/EPS/EMA.
I don’t know the current distro, but afaik we have plenty of ppl at all seniority tiers pulling 150-200+ credit on a fairly routine basis. I don’t know hardly anyone on the 320 who doesn’t average at least 100 a month. Even in a “normal” era. Super senior CAs who really hustle clear like 700k+ in a good year if they want to.
It’s diff flying too though—we do a ton of long, single-transcon days on the bus. So when stuff breaks, it’s pretty easy to make 15-20 hours to fly 1 flight if you’re willing to work on a wknd or holiday.
Just pointing out some differences here—hopefully any JCBA will allow both the hustlers and the leisure-seeker/family-folks to do what they want!
But yeah I’m starting to get the feeling that our pilot groups seem to have some very diff life priorities
04-08-2022, 05:27 PM
#234
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Bus Driver
Posts: 45
Heck, Azul North probably has that many battlestar wearing ex-Comair pilots.
When push comes to shove, I believe that we would all stand up and protect the profession.
04-08-2022, 05:49 PM
#235
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Vertical
Posts: 35
Yeah it’s gonna be interesting—it seems like the general cultural theme at Spirit is QOL > $$$. Bragging points for y’all seems to be how many days off you get.
JB is very much the opposite—you’re way less likely to hear anyone talking about how many days off they got—first thing my bros and I talk about when catching up is how many credit hours we’re at and what insane magic we’ve worked with VDA/EPS/EMA.
I don’t know the current distro, but afaik we have plenty of ppl at all seniority tiers pulling 150-200+ credit on a fairly routine basis. I don’t know hardly anyone on the 320 who doesn’t average at least 100 a month. Even in a “normal” era. Super senior CAs who really hustle clear like 700k+ in a good year if they want to.
It’s diff flying too though—we do a ton of long, single-transcon days on the bus. So when stuff breaks, it’s pretty easy to make 15-20 hours to fly 1 flight if you’re willing to work on a wknd or holiday.
Just pointing out some differences here—hopefully any JCBA will allow both the hustlers and the leisure-seeker/family-folks to do what they want!
But yeah I’m starting to get the feeling that our pilot groups seem to have some very diff life priorities
JB is very much the opposite—you’re way less likely to hear anyone talking about how many days off they got—first thing my bros and I talk about when catching up is how many credit hours we’re at and what insane magic we’ve worked with VDA/EPS/EMA.
I don’t know the current distro, but afaik we have plenty of ppl at all seniority tiers pulling 150-200+ credit on a fairly routine basis. I don’t know hardly anyone on the 320 who doesn’t average at least 100 a month. Even in a “normal” era. Super senior CAs who really hustle clear like 700k+ in a good year if they want to.
It’s diff flying too though—we do a ton of long, single-transcon days on the bus. So when stuff breaks, it’s pretty easy to make 15-20 hours to fly 1 flight if you’re willing to work on a wknd or holiday.
Just pointing out some differences here—hopefully any JCBA will allow both the hustlers and the leisure-seeker/family-folks to do what they want!
But yeah I’m starting to get the feeling that our pilot groups seem to have some very diff life priorities
04-08-2022, 06:02 PM
#236
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,848
I flew with another ex AS guy at Spirit, was at AS for a long time. He commuted and told me that even after all his years there, commuting destroyed his QOL because of the AS work rules. From what he told me, yikes. Nice guy, enjoyed flying with him
04-08-2022, 06:06 PM
#237
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 94
Not sure where $20/hr difference comes from- it looks like a lot less of a difference to me and not even taking into account 321 override. Even if it is $20/hr, that's closer to $12 after taxes... also known a low single digits percentage-wise.
When I looked at the premerger contract comparison, I was surprised (not in good way) that Spirit has better terms in a lot of areas.
I'm still cheerleading for a JB deal and hoping everyone acts a little bit humble if we do combine. Pilots...
When I looked at the premerger contract comparison, I was surprised (not in good way) that Spirit has better terms in a lot of areas.
I'm still cheerleading for a JB deal and hoping everyone acts a little bit humble if we do combine. Pilots...
Year 12 320 CA 283 vs 265 (newest rates)
JB pays Int'l for Caribbean (except SJU)
Holiday pay 200% for six or seven days/year
Night $13/hr
Prem 150% JB vs 200% NK, Emerg assign,outside footprint 200% JB and NK (comparison chart wrong)
Profit Sharing for JB, though JB will have to make a lot to get paid
Scope/JV/Regionals appears slightly better at B6 (when the company doesn't violate it)
JB has best furlough pay/recall in industry
JB has slightly better hours of service/scheduled duty, again probably best in industry
NK better min lineholder days off, JB better RSV days off
RSV/lineholder guarantee average out to the same, no airport standby at either
JB has 5 hour average daily rig, starts at 0100
about the same rigs
NK has min 4 days off
RSV at JB can build blocks (i.e. 18 days ON in a row) with no rest scheduled. Company then responsible to give days off mid block for FAR rest.
RSV RAPs same every day NK, vs changes every day at B6 (pros and cons to both) 10 hour RAP JB
Rescheduling looks good at both, JB pays 2x starting 1 minute outside footprint, extra 50% inside footprint, limits per year.
Vacation accrual-some years NK more, some years JB more depending on YoS
Sick leave, JB slightly better, both can bank and cash out at retirement
Distance learning, NK appears better at 5 hours/day, JB usually around 2-2.5 hours 4x/year
Retirement 15 vs 16 JB. JB has option to put some into retirement health. Company pays $1/hour extra into that acct.
Health Care, NK get more seed money, JB has to jump thru hoops get to theirs. Premiums lower at JB...both high. Most out of pocket limits lower at NK, similar when premiums accounted for
NK much better dental if on medical plan
STD better at JB for max and length (6 months), LTD the same if buying up for both, LTD better at JB if not buying up
LTD healthcare both at active rates, JB til retirement age, NK 5 years
It goes without saying neither side is going to operate under the other's contract ever. If this combination actually happens, important for both sides to know where we are starting from when JCBA negotiations start. Given our leverage we should be able to cherry pick and add in the areas both pre merger contracts are lacking. No reason an industry leading contract shouldn't come from this. Robin Hayes just said yesterday during a TV interview pilot payroll is only going to go up given the shortage.
04-08-2022, 06:06 PM
#238
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,906
Probably the same guy.
04-08-2022, 06:30 PM
#239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,278
Crushes anyone living in MCO, I would imagine. It’s a junior CA base for Spirit and super senior base for JB.
04-08-2022, 11:37 PM
#240
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,420
honestly I think most Spirit pilots have been consistent in saying the hardest part of working for spirit is telling people you work for spirit. It’s an awesome place to work. It just sucks that the name has so much stink on it
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
