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Old 04-21-2018, 10:23 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by symbian simian
Holy what a wall of crap!
No, the left in the USA are not socialist/communist, they mostly believe in democracy as opposed to corporatism. They are not fascists/national socialist as those are really right wing.

Originally Posted by symbian simian
They don't exploit minorities, that is the job of the GOP, same for race BAITING and sexism. ( Unless you don't want equal rights?).



Of course I want equal rights – equal human rights. I don’t want rights based on race, gender, or any other discriminative metric. The only way to achieve leftist “equality” is through racism, discrimination, and sexism. If you promote one demographic of people based on race, gender, or some other inherent quality, then you infringe on someone else’s rights. For example, the left keep pushing for 50% women/50% men (equality of outcome) rather than having equal human rights and letting the outcomes fall out naturally. In order to achieve 50/50, you have to discriminate based on race, gender, sex, etc.


Have you noticed that the Democrats have not improved anything for minorities? That’s not their real goal. They simply want more votes by “giving you stuff” which ironically was stolen initially via theft through taxation. Keep in mind I am not a defender on the Republicans either but the Democrats market themselves differently. Don't believe leftist marketing slogans. It’s still the Bloods vs. The Crips.

Originally Posted by symbian simian
Censorship has F all to do with political orientation.

Originally Posted by symbian simian
The latest tax cuts are doing nothing for the economy but the left has a problem with balancing budgets??
Nothing for the economy? Really? Can you prove that high tax rates are beneficial to the USA? At what point will you say taxes are high enough – provide a percentage.





Originally Posted by symbian simian
NYC, LAX, SFO are cities with very low unemployment and very high wages, how socialist.


Democrat policies in motion…


Originally Posted by symbian simian
Most countries in the EU are on par with the US and are constitutional Monarchies.



Originally Posted by symbian simian
Most of all:
You either support your union or you are conservative, there is no way in the current political climate to do both.
Sure there is… independent thinking! I’m not constrained by the false left/right paradigm. I see both parties as being anti-liberty, anti-Constitution, anti-freedom, pro-war, pro-big government, anti-free speech, etc.

I don’t support groupings of people (governments, associations, unions, special interest groups, and so on) by that nomenclature alone. If their principles align with me, then we can work together. I support individual principles and actions, not people blindly.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
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Old 04-21-2018, 10:38 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by PasserOGas
1. A national seniority list. Take away the biggest impediment to moving to better a better job, and make the airlines compete on pay.
I agree with everything you said. About the seniority list...

How do you integrate military pilots into it? It can't be a simple hours conversion. The military has a vastly different operating domain incomparable to civil transportation operations. There are guys that fly at 80,000 ft.+ in astronaut suits, guys that fight in wars, mid air-to-air refueling of heavy aircraft, low-level airdrops, air-to-air combat, bombing missions, aircraft carrier operations, nuclear weapon missions, test pilots, and so on... They fly a lot less "hours" but they do 10 times more because they do things that isn't done in civil Point A to B flying. I've really considered this and talked it out with ALPA big dogz and there's no fair or easy solution. I'm genuinely interested in finding a good way to have some kind of seniority list.... By definition, a seniority starts when you begin civil flying operations, otherwise you have to somehow insert military pilots into the stack.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
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Old 04-22-2018, 01:46 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by queue
I agree with everything you said. About the seniority list...

How do you integrate military pilots into it? It can't be a simple hours conversion. The military has a vastly different operating domain incomparable to civil transportation operations. There are guys that fly at 80,000 ft.+ in astronaut suits, guys that fight in wars, mid air-to-air refueling of heavy aircraft, low-level airdrops, air-to-air combat, bombing missions, aircraft carrier operations, nuclear weapon missions, test pilots, and so on... They fly a lot less "hours" but they do 10 times more because they do things that isn't done in civil Point A to B flying. I've really considered this and talked it out with ALPA big dogz and there's no fair or easy solution. I'm genuinely interested in finding a good way to have some kind of seniority list.... By definition, a seniority starts when you begin civil flying operations, otherwise you have to somehow insert military pilots into the stack.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
Give them a credit. 10 years of seniority in honor of their service. Easy.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:53 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by PasserOGas
Give them a credit. 10 years of seniority in honor of their service. Easy.
I disagree. Assuming a national list existed, seniority should start when you get hired at your first airline, just like everyone else. We all choose our path, and they chose the path with free flight training and decent pay while they serve the country. While I applaud and celebrate their service, I do not believe that it should place them ahead of anyone who worked their way into the industry in other ways.

Granted, it's far easier now for civilian guys than it was when most of us came through, but imagine how angry you would be if on day 1 at your regional the military guys could hold captain earning $60,000 a year, and you were a junior reserve in the right seat making $18,000 per year. No way would that fly. Maybe a longevity credit that have them a pay bump? That's fine and has no impact on their fellow pilots. But a seniority bump puts them ahead of the line, which isn't fair.
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:22 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by queue
It's for legal reasons. That way the opposition cannot say that it's an attempt to organize a job action. In other words, it's clearly labeled as first amendment protected speech. Everything you watch on TV, particularly the "news", is also for "entertainment only". I would also say that I'm not offering legal advice or medical advice.
You are definitely not offering legal advice.
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:40 AM
  #36  
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A national seniority list? Can anyone name a seniority list integration resulting from a merger of just *two* airlines that didn’t result in serious consternation? Heck, go read the Alaska/VA thread right now.

What color is the sky in your utopian fantasy land?
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Old 04-22-2018, 06:43 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Warhawg01
A national seniority list? Can anyone name a seniority list integration resulting from a merger of just *two* airlines that didn’t result in serious consternation? Heck, go read the Alaska/VA thread right now.

What color is the sky in your utopian fantasy land?
Not debating your point because I agree with it, but a national list has been discussed ad nauseum...there’s just no good way to establish it. The problem is, we are the only industry where we can’t take our experience and longevity with us if we are dissatisfied with our emoloyer, or if our employer goes under, which puts us at a huge disadvantage against management since they can drag out negotiations, keep pay lower knowing we are “stuck” (in the sense that it would cost us too much to give up our seniority and start over). I don’t think queue is the first to bring it up, and I don’t think it’s only his utopian fantasy land.
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Old 04-22-2018, 06:55 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
Not debating your point because I agree with it, but a national list has been discussed ad nauseum...there’s just no good way to establish it. The problem is, we are the only industry where we can’t take our experience and longevity with us if we are dissatisfied with our emoloyer, or if our employer goes under, which puts us at a huge disadvantage against management since they can drag out negotiations, keep pay lower knowing we are “stuck” (in the sense that it would cost us too much to give up our seniority and start over). I don’t think queue is the first to bring it up, and I don’t think it’s only his utopian fantasy land.
On the other hand, you move up in the system simply by continuing to work. If you do the minimum required on Day 1, you can still do the minimum required on Day 10,000 and be very well compensated. Other professions don't have that benefit. Not by a long shot.

The thing about arbitrary line drawing is, well, it's arbitrary.
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:09 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Warhawg01
You are delusional if you think the RLA — a law with its primary goal of not disrupting interstate commerce — can be changed that would allow a union to strike in 31 days.

In your fantasy world, what would prevent a union from demanding $1000 per hour and 25 days off a month and then kicking back and waiting for day 31?

I’m not defending the current years-long process, but dreaming of unicorns and rainbows isn’t going to fix it.
One way that they can spin it too is "31 days of negotiations", meaning if you negotiate for 4 days this month or even this yearrr and you have 27 days left to negotiate. Which technically could still take negotiation 3, 4, 5 years (or as long as they want just like now) before "day 31" occurs. So there would need to be a caveat in there to force company to conduct negotiations atleast 2 days per month, the most they'd delay an agreement is 15 months before a strike. Just a thought.

Last edited by MGMTiswatchingU; 04-22-2018 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:56 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by MGMTiswatchingU
One way that they can spin it too is "31 days of negotiations", meaning if you negotiate for 4 days this month or even this yearrr and you have 27 days left to negotiate. Which technically could still take negotiation 3, 4, 5 years (or as long as they want just like now) before "day 31" occurs. So there would need to be a caveat in there to force company to conduct negotiations atleast 2 days per month, the most they'd delay an agreement is 15 months before a strike. Just a thought.
True. Legalistic contractual language would be different so as not to allow loopholes. "30 contiguous calendar days originating at the initiation date as filed by the grieving party to include weekdays and weekends but not including federal holidays."




This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
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