ProfessorJoeVee

Got one dude. A good one.

So what's your excuse for not wanting a union? I've heard them all from "My Uncle's brother was in a bad union back in '36" to "The company loves us and a union would destroy that trusting relationship..."

Come on, let's hear it. Blame it on Joe Vee.

It'd really make my day.

jungleguppy

A union is the result of bad or hostile management. If current management is willing to address issues with labor, there is no need for a formal union. Looking at what has been done to labor in BK, I would ask you, what is the point of a CBA if managment ignors, doesn't respect, or just plain cancels the CBA and imposes terms. And after that, the kangaroo court says, "No, you can't strike, that wouldn't be fair".

I sugest that what this industry needs is not for B6, VX,... to organize, but the RLA to enter at least the last century (in labor's favor).

And I'll say it again, since you don't work for JetBlue, SHUT UP! You are not an expert on a place that you do not work!

ProfessorJoeVee

The RLA has no teeth when outfits like JetBlue operate outside the union. Organize and you give it and every other union airline the solidarity needed to have strength in their voice.

Really? That is the most intelligent remark you have??

I'll shut up when you and your bros. quick lowering the bar on every "real" professional pilot.

homer j

Once again, professor, who do you fly for? If you're going to bash every aspect of a company you have no real knowledge of, I would like to know. My guess is you will once again skip the question.

fireman0174

Many pilots think of themselves as management or at least as "quasi-management", but the truth of the matter is that airline pilots are labor - period. In essence they are no different than an assembly line worker at a Detroit automobile factory, except perhaps for the white/blue shirts and tie. As pilots are not management, some form of representation for the group is a certain necessity.

A union is not a bad thing, as long as the membership is educated, keeps informed and elects people who keep the needs of the members as their #1 priority. Never, ever be afraid to recall a representative who strays off course, no matter how “distasteful” it might seem, and always be leery of pilots who try to make a career out of being union representatives.

IMHO, it is very important for a union representative to spend some time every few years totally away from the MEC table and environment. They need to work on the line, just like “Joe average pilot”, to truly see and understand the makeup and feelings of the membership. They need to really listen to and understand the membership.

To many “career representatives” think they know it all and fail to really listen to their constituency, but rather try to sell the union (MEC) line. Seen it and sadly, I've done it myself.

The best working relationship is when management and labor are in “balance”. The tragic events of 9/11 swung the pendulum way out of equilibrium in management’s favor, but I think it’s returning towards the center, as it should be.

IMHO, a union is needed at JetBlue, and not at some undefined time and place in the future. When to put a union structure together is not when it’s really needed but before that time actually arrives.

I personally think an “in-house” structure would be a better option for JetBlue pilots to start from than simply joining ALPA to start off with. That way, if you eventually join ALPA, you would be in a much better position with something already in place.

To get back "on thread", I'll certainly admit that the courts have run "rough shod" over airline labor since 9/11, but that's all the more reason to put together something to defend yourself; eventually water will seek it's own level and you should be prepared to respond accordingly.

Also, while the current management at JetBlue is somewhat responsive to the pilot’s needs, remember that management, along with their methods, can change literally overnight and you should be prepared for that possibility.

I stress to you that being prepared with some sort of structure is a far better option than just being an uncontrolled raft flowing down a fast river.

No matter what, good luck. The fine men and ladies of the JetBlue pilot group should prepare themselves to control their own destiny as much as possible. JMHO.

ProfessorJoeVee

Hey Homer--with your whopping four postings and no real knowledge of who you are what really makes you think you deserve an answer? If you have an issue with a certain airline start your own thread about it. You don't need me for the lightening rod.

Back to the RLA question: It's funny that JetBlue pilots point their finger to the RLA when they don't collectively bargain.

Here is the real truth. Most JetBlue pilots would join a union if it were there when they got hired.

But--since there is no union and they all sign individual contracts JetBlue pilots are afraid to show some backbone and organize one. Instead individual contracts are dictated to them and accepted while pointing to the benefits and compensation that union pilots at other airlines have negotiated for.

In other words JetBlue pilots take the easy road. There is no union and they are afraid to organize one. Instead they live and compare their compensation to the contracts that union pilots have fought to get without themselves having to take a stand.

And once again we circle around that most disturbing of words: sc@b

1800 pilots
Coast to coast jet service
Individual contractors

Once the JetBlue mangement gets wind that unions are being discussed on websites with JetBlue pilots the next "individual" contract each signs will make it a termination offense to respond...

Oh Ye Fools

crgok9

Pro, this is going to come as a revelation to you. I would have no problem if a union came to B6, in fact, I am sincerely hoping that the long awaited ALPA cards arrive very soon as I am hearing that they will because I will certainly vote yes. But you know what...I, like so many others in this industry, have been through so much crap that I am not going to blow a blood vessel preaching to the world about what I believe or feel. B6 will become union, if it survives. It is inevitable. B6 is either going to become a buyout target or it is just going to step on it's dick enough and do bad business until we simply close our doors.

Save your concern about B6 changing the industry...our management is not smart enough for that. In fact, our CEO does not have the experience or the know how to operate the airline at this point in the game...that is why we are self imploding. B6 is not going to change a damn thing, we are merely a ripple in the pond.

I truly believe that B6 pay scales ( As others mention, NOT you Pro ) did not bring the industry scales to where they currently sit. Nobody seems to know about the time and half pay that B6 pays above 70 hours. Which is exactly why the legacies fell so short when they "supposidly" matched B6 pay scales during renegotiations with their ALPA groups. What does amaze me though is that the respective ALPA groups did not know this themselves and state to their companies that if they claim that they are using B6 as a pay scale benchmark then don't forget to pay us time and a half above 70 hours credit. Kind of a biggee to miss. Anyway, my words are not going to change anyone's thoughts here. It is obvious that B6 pilots are truly hated by many, so why try. Hate is a powerful thing and can be very damaging.

On a brighter note, I like the Blue shirts, they make it easy to catch a taxi.

ProfessorJoeVee

As has been stated before:

There are many aspects of a contract. The easiest to negotiate is the pay scale.

Did you ever think of this: The reason you are getting the 150% is because you are operating on your days off? Days off are a form of compensation? If it takes working for 150% pay on your days off to get your pay where it ought to be that there is a problem?

You say you are awaiting ALPA cards. I am happy to hear this. What are you doing to make it happen?

In my opinion just educating your fellow crewmembers on the benefits of being Union, collective bargaining, the need for ALPA or a union is a huge step that an indivdual can take.

crgok9

Finally, some sensibility and common sense enters the arena. I applaud you and completely agree. Thanks for bringing things back into the realm of reality...finally.

crgok9

Pro the days off at B6 are better here than at my last union carrier. At my senority I average a minimum of 16 to as many as 20 days off in a month for the pay that we receive. Our minimum days off are 12, period, and that normally only applies to those on reserve. Even our junior lineholders are averaging 14 to usually 16 or 17 days off in a month. So, B6 is not paying time and a half above 70 hours becuase we are working more days...they are simply paying it because that is what they thought was the right thing to do.

As far as what I do to encourage a union, people that know me at our company very clearly know my position on a union. I'm not shy about it. While I am not an ALPA lover, I see ALPA as a good choice because so much is already built into the membership. Legal, medical, and years of negotiating at the various tables. In our case, possibly, the ALPA merger and acquisition clause. I see this as a very real issue for B6 in the future. Have I started any petitions? No. But, I have a voice and I know that there are those that listen. 14 pilots showed up at Herndon recently to speak with ALPA about B6. Had I known of the meeting I would have tried to make it 15 pilots to hear them out and find out...what's next?