Amen. I hope we put the turbine PIC requirement back in. It will reward the pilots at Horizon that hustle and take the first upgrade oportunity. It will be a motivator to the copilots that just park in the right seat for life style. It will be a good thing for both airlines

I’m confused with the wording of the pathway. Is it a flow or just an interview? I’m trying to make up my mind if I should through my application in with horizon, to end up in Alaska in 3 years.

It is kinda both. After you've been hired and on the line for a bit, you sign up for an interview. Instead of an all-day marathon, you get a 20 min Q and A with an HR employee and a management pilot from Alaska. We're seeing about a 90% pass rate (last I heard) on these interviews. Next, you're placed on the list in order of company seniority. Though the guarantee is about 30%, at present Alaska is hiring about 50% of their new pilots from the Pathways list.

So, you can opt out of it? (Sounds like you 'sign up' for it.)
As is...if you think your chances are better of getting to AS sooner on your own, you don't have to go the 'pathway' route.

Thanks for the input.

Horizon is advertising 2-3 years to be sitting an Alaska class. Is that true or is it just an advertisement?

If you're at Horizon, from what I have heard the pathways program is the only way to get to Alaska. I heard they wont take you outside that program.

That's just crazy....and keeping me away.
I already have over 5000 hrs. 121 time....don't want to wait 3 more years.

Sad, too. QX was my 1st choice.

Its hard to say. I will be here two years in September and I am roughly 150 on the list. If I were a betting man I would say more than the 2 to 3 years.

It’s definitely a recruiting tool for Horizon. There is no way a new hire in 2019 will be in a mainline Alaska class before 2022. The numbers hired in the last year and a half are about 450 plus. Most of these pilots don’t even have a pathway number yet as the requirements for an interview changed last year to a year on property and passing a CQ event. So let’s say 60% (conservatively) of those sign up for pathway. That’s about 270, add that to the 150 on the list already and that gives you 420. That’s 420 pilots ahead of you waiting on a slot. At 50% of AS new hire classes that’s over 800 pilots need to be hired, and at 30% that’s 1400 pilots that need to be hired. That doesn’t even account for the variable that is people waiting until their seniority number is near the top of the pathway list before they interview, that number could be very large as well. At an airline that isn’t growing their mainline fleet or retiring at the level of the big 3, it will take a while to work your way up that list based on the variables above.

Horizon is also starting to have an issue with people bypassing upgrade, especially in the Q. I really do believe that a new requirement for a pathway class will be 1000pic at Horizon by next year. That will mean you’ll have to be at Horizon atleast 4 years if you’re not previous 121. If Horizon cannot keep up with attrition, they will meter the pathway guaranteed.

On top of that many guys will leave for other opportunities, I think times will be interesting again here in a few years. Horizon just took away the referral bonus for pilots, and stated they are way ahead of the hiring curve. That is true, for now. Watch what happens when the vacuum turns on in 2021. Grab that popcorn, sh&t’s gonna get real :)

I hate to sound like a negative Nancy here but I have serious doubts about the 2 to 3 year projection. The reason? There are lots of senior pilots at Horizon that don’t want to go to Alaska but that group has been bypassed more or less at this point. When you look at the list it goes from about 4.5 years of seniority or so down to less than 1 year of seniority with only a couple hundred signed up. I think a lot more will sign up as they approach the seniority they need to go to Alaska so the current numbers are very misleading.

The other part of the equation is the amount of hiring at Alaska. This is a bit of a wild card, but absent growth, there won’t be much hiring. Retirements won’t help much either. It’s a young pilot group relatively speaking. Growth and higher attrition due to pilots leaving Alaska for other airlines would really be the only factor that can keep the Pathway Program moving at a good pace.

My honest guess(it’s a total guess and I hope I’m wrong on this) is that we will see some movement over the next couple of years. The pathway will look pretty good for awhile maybe even getting some pilots from Horizon to Alaska within 4 years of their hire date but then the late sign ups will start coming in and that number will begin to go more into the 5 to 7 year range or more.

Hopefully some of you can convince me otherwise.

Though none of us have that magic 8 ball, that’s a very realistic outlook on the pathway list. I think anyone hired after 2019 will be at QX 6+ years waiting for a slot. I’m sure most will just jump on other opportunities in the meantime.

Thanks for the honest feedback.

The April 15th class is 4 pathway out of 8, so 50%.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the goal was 50% for the year, not per class. Didn't they already have one or two that was entirely pathway kids? Admittedly, I don't pay attention as much as many seem to.

I'm wondering if you guys guessing at the times above are factoring in time to meet the experience minimums at Alaska? I've got a lot of experience and am flying a 737 in Canada with my green card almost completed. I'll be applying directly with Alaska but am considering Horizon as well. Cheers

I answered my own question after reading back further in this thread.

After being hired at Alaska from Horizon do you start at year one?

Yes, seniority and longevity reset.

Yep. We're the same airline until it comes to pay and benefits. Then we dont deserve the same benefits.

We're Alaska when we stand out and do something great, but if we mess up we're a 3rd party CPA contractor that's definitely not affiliated with AS.

We saw a short clip in AQP once of ATC preventing a horizon plane from having a runway incursion. The graphic depiction of the q400 had the Eskimo censored off the tail haha.

Hahahaha. Sounds about right.

If the AAG cared anything about us they wouldn't be trying to remove negotiated value from our CBA at every turn. Whether we like it or not Horizon is just a money machine for AAG and will be treated accordingly(machine).

You're absolutely right! Glad tomorrow is my last day.

Congrats! And good luck at the new gig.

Thank you!

Definitely gonna need to change your screen name. Lol. Congrats. Where you headed? Sorry if you’ve already mentioned it.

Thanks! Hahahaha. It is gonna need an update. I am off to Frontier.

It says a lot that AAG was able to drive off someone with that screen name though. I am totally befuddled by how they are managing (to put it kindly) Horizon.

Good luck at the new gig.

I’m trying to understand this but it almost seemed like the changes to the Pathway program were designed to drive away pilots in my situation.

I came with the experience to upgrade but doing so would have kept me in reserve and unable to build the required flight time with QX in a reasonable amount of time. On the other hand I would be competitive applying directly to Alaska but I was told by many that Alaska would no longer hire QX’rs outside the Pathway. So basically by sticking around I would have been stagnating my career progression instead of helping it along.

I’m done. Flew my last trip. Off to an LCC. It’s too bad, it wouldn’t have taken a whole lot to keep me around but it seems clear that they don’t really care to put the effort into making it better. The response from management was essentially nada.

It seems they won’t get the message until they have so many people leave or have so much trouble recruiting that they compromise $$$. But they always seem to have SkyWest to fill in if they need extra lift.

That dynamic leaves you more or less powerless to negotiate.

Congrats! Where are you off to?