sailingfun

The Big issue with VA is what will happen after Delta aquires 49 percent of Virgin Atlantic. It looks like Virgin Atlantic will be integrated into Skyteam which leaves VX as a competitor to the skyteam operation. That may mean a end to furture funding from RB. The next year will be interesting.

usmc-sgt

Is there a commercial pilot left on the planet that hasn't heard this one yet?

gatorbird

Looks like from this reply and others it was perceived that I was putting the VX pilot group down; not the case and my apologies if it appeared that way. My reply was in response to okbk's rather terse (paraphrased) reply that "parking aircraft is how the airline business works". I simply countered that with my own comment that some airlines choose to utilize their very expensive leased commodities and turn that into profitability. In essence, my comment was a shot at the VX operational philosophy- not it's pilot group.

I won't shy away from my disapproval of VX as a company; I (like many others) view it as an illegally foreign-owned carrier that is IMHO making very irresponsible and reckless decisions with investor money with little sign of turning the corner. Bash Spirit all you want from a product point of view; I'll openly acknowledge it's bare-bones basic and lacking in customer service-- but it's profitable. While VX definitely offers the superior product (no real comparison actually...we're not even competitors), they don't have enough differentiation or brand loyalty to survive in their current state for long. Now I know the "brand loyalty" comment will draw some ire from some that it's there- I'm sure some is- but not enough to keep the place afloat.

As for my rebuttal to the posts regarding compensation: don't focus solely on the hourly rate you found on the internet; it doesn't tell the whole story (when has it ever?). I'm not interested in publicly posting details on a web forum, but generically I'll say as a junior 7-year CA I'm doing just fine-- all while enjoying 17-18 days off (commutable BTW) and haven't worked a major holiday yet. So if that's your definition of "bringing the industry down" then I guess I'm guilty.

CanoePilot

Spirit has some of the best work rules in the industry. VX is on par with mesa when it confess to work rules.

sinkrate3278

He's just saying that he ain't a virgin.

johnso29

True. However, the already over saturated market does not allow VX to charge a premium for the product they provide. The small amount of loyal clientele simply can not sustain the operation. This is clear by looking at the financials provided by VX.

atooraya

We'll see what happens this year. They've stopped growth, brought in a planner from a profitable WestJet, and are looking and maturing markets. If this year can't prove profitable for Virgin, then I don't know what's going to happen next year.

Let's see if 1Q2013 is going to be as bad as 1Q2012, with a $47m loss.

gloopy

Agreed. Every airline has some amount of customers (or "guests" *barf*) that prefer to fly them for whatever reason. Even regional airlines 98% of the country doesn't even know exist (in name at least) have someone somewhere who prefers to fly on them. There were lots of people that prefered to fly and actively chose Midway in RDU, Comair in CVG and MaxJet and Eos in NYC, but not enough. Giving away "extras" at less than the cost of the basics while the temporary high from zero longevity, sweetheart start up deals and no maintenence costs rapidly wear off and your only hope is a meglomaniac transfusing money into a hemorrhaging operation for ego's sake alone is a tissue thin foundation at best. Going forward, to any extent VAm is successful, it will hurt VAt/VAu/Skyteam/etc proportionately.

Eventually he will get tired of guaranteeing lucrative returns for others at great cost to himself, especially when it directly harms his other, far more important airline adventures.

gloopy

That's the rub though. The only thing harder than making money in the airlines with the cost advantages of juniority all around during rapid endless growth mode is making money in slow growth or stagnation/shrinkage mode with rising costs and declining network relevancy.

It can be done though, especially for a while, if an airline's network is fully relevant. Assets can be shifted to actually grow a network's reach and costs can be paired down by cannibalizing one's own capacity. Again, for a little while. But is VAm big enough to be doing that? We'll see. Eventually Sir Sugarmoney is going to get over it. He's savvy enough to have more than one "exit stratedgy" including some that save a greater amount of face over all than whatever he would lose on any one endeavor.

crxpilot

Go to vegas on a tuesday or saturday and you will see about 99% of the planes based there sitting on the ramp....all part of the plan.