American Eagle to hire
02-09-2010, 07:42 AM
#781
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
Bingo. I'll take 1000 CFIs who have worked their tail off to get where they are over 1 furloughed 121 guy who never CFI'd, parents have paid for everything in his/her life, and thus has ZERO work ethic. Preferably, I would like the best of both worlds.
02-09-2010, 07:47 AM
#782
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 737
Posts: 1,136
Yeah, what does this granting hardship mean? Of the guys at Eagle with AA seniority numbers, and with the new ruling, does that mean they are forced out of Eagle to AA? I would think it would be obvious that not all of them would want to go back in the first place, unless they had to.
02-09-2010, 08:14 AM
#783
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: EMJ CA
Posts: 115
Guys that are interviewing this week: Please PM me or tell us what HR is saying about class dates.
I would assume there are some pilots that work for AE reading this thread who hear rumors on the line that may or not be true, and also guys like me who are in the pool waiting to be called. This thread has so many rumors who knows what to believe.
I would assume there are some pilots that work for AE reading this thread who hear rumors on the line that may or not be true, and also guys like me who are in the pool waiting to be called. This thread has so many rumors who knows what to believe.
Last edited by colinflyin; 02-09-2010 at 11:58 AM.
02-09-2010, 08:24 AM
#784
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 17
At the time you could say, "I paid my dues" as I was one of the most experienced pilots in my 121 new-hire class. In fact, there was only one other guy who had more time than me.
If I applied today with 1,000 hours like I had then, I would be highly doubtful about getting a job. Now I hear guys acting like they "deserve it" with that amount of flight time because they "paid their dues" as a CFI/135 contract pilot.
All I am saying is that in the past when flying jobs were scarce and pilots were on furlough (e.g. 2001), the higher time guys got the phone calls. I understand this industry is a lot different these days, but it's almost like flipping a seniority list upside down. It goes against the norm of airline hiring practices, that's all.
02-09-2010, 08:28 AM
#785
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 267
Gotta love it... I say it's too early to say anything and Eagle is taking their time to get people into class. However being someone in the pool that has basically been drained with this new hiring, I have once been in the shoes of people waiting for Eagle to tell me what's up only to be let down.
I will not forget being two to three days away from class after spending 3 weeks in florida at an RJ course and receiving a phone call letting me know class was cancelled. Days away, what a let down. Good luck to all the new hires. I hope it actually does work out for you and they're just slow because they haven't hired in two years.
I will not forget being two to three days away from class after spending 3 weeks in florida at an RJ course and receiving a phone call letting me know class was cancelled. Days away, what a let down. Good luck to all the new hires. I hope it actually does work out for you and they're just slow because they haven't hired in two years.
02-09-2010, 08:40 AM
#786
DisplAAced
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: EMB-145 FO
Posts: 638
Yeah, what does this granting hardship mean? Of the guys at Eagle with AA seniority numbers, and with the new ruling, does that mean they are forced out of Eagle to AA? I would think it would be obvious that not all of them would want to go back in the first place, unless they had to.
The meeting this weekend is to ratify one of two resolutions. One resolution leaves the definition in the hands of an arbitrator. The other says that our current contractual definition of hardship should be applied to any Letter 3 hardship applications.
In the end it gives the senior guys a way out because they don't want to flow to AA since since it's a pay cut and lower QOL. They have been sitting in the left seat at Eagle for many years now and that allowed AA flowbacks on Eagle property and subsequent stagnation and the 10 year upgrade. Once again the old guys have their cake and they get to eat it too.
02-09-2010, 11:40 AM
#787
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Thrill Seat
Posts: 467
Now I hear guys acting like they "deserve it" with that amount of flight time because they "paid their dues" as a CFI/135 contract pilot.
All I am saying is that in the past when flying jobs were scarce and pilots were on furlough (e.g. 2001), the higher time guys got the phone calls. I understand this industry is a lot different these days, but it's almost like flipping a seniority list upside down. It goes against the norm of airline hiring practices, that's all.
All I am saying is that in the past when flying jobs were scarce and pilots were on furlough (e.g. 2001), the higher time guys got the phone calls. I understand this industry is a lot different these days, but it's almost like flipping a seniority list upside down. It goes against the norm of airline hiring practices, that's all.
Back in 06 you were humble and were afforded the opportunity to join a regional carrier and work your way up the ranks. Unfortunately life happened and you and many others were furloughed and now are looking for employment. To come on to APF and tell CFI's and 135 guys who may or may not have more experience (aircraft, quality of time, etc) than you that they are not worthy because they are not former 121 is blasphemous.
Remember you yourself went from CFI to airline, perhaps you can sympathize with those in this predicament now. Instead of bashing on lack of experience educate (what does a CFI going to eagle need to study, what’s the best way to commute etc.) and in the end you will be winner!
I wish you the best of luck and hope you get a call as they are calling furloughed (a friend of mine from Lynx was hired).
02-09-2010, 12:14 PM
#788
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 302
Fellow American Eagle Pilots,
We are now just a few months from a ruling from Arbitrator Nicolau on the remedy for the TWA class slot issue. Last Fall he ruled that American Eagle pilots holding AA seniority numbers should have attended classes instead of TWA new hires.
Arbitrator Nicolau’s remedy will define when our flow-through pilots will be able to transfer to AA as well as their compensation and benefits at the time of transfer. Although we do not yet know American Eagle’s position on the contractual obligations on flow-through pilots to transfer to AA, we feel that it is essential to define all aspects of the transfer process.
However, the most significant question to immediately follow will be whether these pilots will be contractually obligated to flow through to AA when issued a class date.
This issue will most likely be the most challenging and potentially divisive issue our pilots have faced since four separate airlines were brought together to form the American Eagle MEC in 1996. The source of this challenge to our unity is a letter of agreement signed in 1997 which effectively formed “groups within a group” within our union.
The time has come to address this question. After consultation with ALPA’s legal resources it has been determined that the MEC will express its position in this matter.
Eagle pilots should understand the limits of the MEC’s authority. MEC’s have the legal right to take positions on the interpretation of undefined areas of the contract. MEC’s do not have the authority to unilaterally change the meaning of a collectively bargained agreement without negotiating with the other parties. When a contractual provision is in doubt, the MEC seeks guidance from the negotiators who negotiated the provision in the first place. If the negotiators considered that question and negotiated with specific intent over the issue, then the answer is determined and cannot be altered without negotiating with the other party. If, on the other hand, the negotiators did not consider that particular question, then the MEC may interpret the contract and define a position. When agreement on interpretation cannot be reached, arbitration is used, and a neutral arbitrator issues a fair and binding decision.
This week, your MEC will deliberate two draft resolutions for possible ratification.
These two draft resolutions are posted on the home page of the Eagle ALPA website. The MEC will be discussing them on this Friday’s special MEC teleconference. The MEC teleconference will take place at 4:00 p.m. Central on Friday, February 12th. All pilots in good standing are welcome to listen into the teleconference but must do so in person at the MEC office. Unfortunately, given current technology, this is the only way that the MEC can continue the teleconference in the event a member moves for closed session.
The first draft resolution describes the original negotiating intent that required flow-through pilots to transfer to AA at the time they were issued a class date, unless they could demonstrate a hardship. The resolution then creates a process by which the arbitrator will define an appropriate hardship standard and apply that standard to each hardship submission. This is being done to ensure an impartial review. Pilots who have a hardship approved by the neutral arbitrator and by management, pursuant to Letter III.F, will not be required to attend new hire training at American Airlines.
The second draft resolution, if ratified, will require the MEC to present the current hardship criteria to the neutral arbitrator and also recommend that the criteria be applied to Letter 3. This draft resolution states that the MEC believes its existing hardship criteria are fair and should be applied to Letter III hardship applications. It also provides that the MEC will notify the neutral arbitrator of its understanding of Letter 3’s intent that pilots holding AA numbers who are eligible to transfer to AA are obligated to transfer unless they have a hardship that is approved under Paragraph III.F of Letter 3.
In short, in full consideration of the strong feelings by pilots over this issue at hand, the MEC must debate the protocol above.
It is important that every Eagle pilot read these two draft resolutions and provide your local representative with any thoughts and concerns you may have. This week will be a busy one for your status representatives as you weigh in with your thoughts and concerns. Please be patient in your correspondence with them and realize that it may not be possible for them to return every phone call and email immediately.
We are now just a few months from a ruling from Arbitrator Nicolau on the remedy for the TWA class slot issue. Last Fall he ruled that American Eagle pilots holding AA seniority numbers should have attended classes instead of TWA new hires.
Arbitrator Nicolau’s remedy will define when our flow-through pilots will be able to transfer to AA as well as their compensation and benefits at the time of transfer. Although we do not yet know American Eagle’s position on the contractual obligations on flow-through pilots to transfer to AA, we feel that it is essential to define all aspects of the transfer process.
However, the most significant question to immediately follow will be whether these pilots will be contractually obligated to flow through to AA when issued a class date.
This issue will most likely be the most challenging and potentially divisive issue our pilots have faced since four separate airlines were brought together to form the American Eagle MEC in 1996. The source of this challenge to our unity is a letter of agreement signed in 1997 which effectively formed “groups within a group” within our union.
The time has come to address this question. After consultation with ALPA’s legal resources it has been determined that the MEC will express its position in this matter.
Eagle pilots should understand the limits of the MEC’s authority. MEC’s have the legal right to take positions on the interpretation of undefined areas of the contract. MEC’s do not have the authority to unilaterally change the meaning of a collectively bargained agreement without negotiating with the other parties. When a contractual provision is in doubt, the MEC seeks guidance from the negotiators who negotiated the provision in the first place. If the negotiators considered that question and negotiated with specific intent over the issue, then the answer is determined and cannot be altered without negotiating with the other party. If, on the other hand, the negotiators did not consider that particular question, then the MEC may interpret the contract and define a position. When agreement on interpretation cannot be reached, arbitration is used, and a neutral arbitrator issues a fair and binding decision.
This week, your MEC will deliberate two draft resolutions for possible ratification.
These two draft resolutions are posted on the home page of the Eagle ALPA website. The MEC will be discussing them on this Friday’s special MEC teleconference. The MEC teleconference will take place at 4:00 p.m. Central on Friday, February 12th. All pilots in good standing are welcome to listen into the teleconference but must do so in person at the MEC office. Unfortunately, given current technology, this is the only way that the MEC can continue the teleconference in the event a member moves for closed session.
The first draft resolution describes the original negotiating intent that required flow-through pilots to transfer to AA at the time they were issued a class date, unless they could demonstrate a hardship. The resolution then creates a process by which the arbitrator will define an appropriate hardship standard and apply that standard to each hardship submission. This is being done to ensure an impartial review. Pilots who have a hardship approved by the neutral arbitrator and by management, pursuant to Letter III.F, will not be required to attend new hire training at American Airlines.
The second draft resolution, if ratified, will require the MEC to present the current hardship criteria to the neutral arbitrator and also recommend that the criteria be applied to Letter 3. This draft resolution states that the MEC believes its existing hardship criteria are fair and should be applied to Letter III hardship applications. It also provides that the MEC will notify the neutral arbitrator of its understanding of Letter 3’s intent that pilots holding AA numbers who are eligible to transfer to AA are obligated to transfer unless they have a hardship that is approved under Paragraph III.F of Letter 3.
In short, in full consideration of the strong feelings by pilots over this issue at hand, the MEC must debate the protocol above.
It is important that every Eagle pilot read these two draft resolutions and provide your local representative with any thoughts and concerns you may have. This week will be a busy one for your status representatives as you weigh in with your thoughts and concerns. Please be patient in your correspondence with them and realize that it may not be possible for them to return every phone call and email immediately.
02-09-2010, 12:22 PM
#789
*********
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
No, I'm hanging on to the left seat for a couple more months. I've already been looking, but will step it up after the downgrade.
RSV doesn't yield much time for myself, much less my family, and a job search. I'll be a senior F/O, so that should get me another 4-6 days off per month.
RSV doesn't yield much time for myself, much less my family, and a job search. I'll be a senior F/O, so that should get me another 4-6 days off per month.
02-09-2010, 02:30 PM
#790
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 115
Guys that are interviewing this week: Please PM me or tell us what HR is saying about class dates.
I would assume there are some pilots that work for AE reading this thread who hear rumors on the line that may or not be true, and also guys like me who are in the pool waiting to be called. This thread has so many rumors who knows what to believe.
I would assume there are some pilots that work for AE reading this thread who hear rumors on the line that may or not be true, and also guys like me who are in the pool waiting to be called. This thread has so many rumors who knows what to believe.
THANKS
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