The grass is looking greener.....
11-30-2005, 05:48 PM
#1
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Posts: n/a
The grass is looking greener.....
This question is more angled toward the former/current military types (although anyone with any insight, please do chime in). I'm looking to take the step into the civilian world and trying to weigh my options. Have a few years of commitment left flying Eagles and I'm wondering, based on your past experience (and 20/20 hindsight), would you have stayed in 'til 20 for the retirement, or is jumping ship into the majors a better choice? My three biggest requirements are: based in Denver/Colorado Springs area, eventually a more normal schedule with my family (these 12 hour days and deployments are killing me), and a fairly decent pay scale. Yes I know I'm shooting for the moon on this, but you always miss shots you never take.
Also, assuming the commercial route is the approved solution, any recommendations on outfits to fly for? FedEx/UPS look like they have some pretty decent pay scales. Any chance of working for them out of Colorado?
Thanks in advance for all the help. Sorry if these questions have been answered uber times already. I'm just sort of impatient
Also, assuming the commercial route is the approved solution, any recommendations on outfits to fly for? FedEx/UPS look like they have some pretty decent pay scales. Any chance of working for them out of Colorado?
Thanks in advance for all the help. Sorry if these questions have been answered uber times already. I'm just sort of impatient
12-01-2005, 03:49 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by AmericanIdiot#1
Take the bonus, do your 20, retire, then come to one of the cargo carriers. We will still be here when your time comes.
12-01-2005, 07:47 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: A300 CA
Posts: 66
PT,
I'm an Eagle bro that bailed at 14 and I have absolutely no regrets. We (FedEx) are hiring like banshees right now, and it looks like it'll continue for at least the next few years (of course, that could all change tomorrow, such is this business
).
As far as jumping at the end of your ADSC vs retiring, I recommend the middle road -- do the ANG/AFR thing. It doesn't have to be flying -- there are lots of IMA jobs out there that need a guy with wings on his chest and only require 2 days a month (or 4 every other month, in my case). That way, you keep a pretty decent military retirement (and, more importantly, retirement benefits) while building seniority and airline retirement.
The best thing about the airline gig is CONTROL. Want more time at home to watch the kids grow up? Put off that upgrade for a couple of years and enjoy the benefits of seniority in your seat. Got three kids in college
? Bid widebody captain at 100% -- you won't see mama much, but at least you'll be able to afford bacon with your beans. Either way, YOU (not your commander or AFPC) make the decision, and it has no impact on your long term career (unlike passing up upgrades, positions, etc in the military).
The worst thing would have to be day-to-day stability. While the AF has been known to RIF, getting rid of pilots is a rarity. In this business, short notice furloughs are a fact of life. This can be mitigated quite a bit with an ANG/AFR job. Right now, my ANG unit would have me working every day if I would (which I won't -- I got off AD for a reason). Additionally, staying active with the reserves opens other opportunities -- I've had two unsolicited contacts this year from defense contractors asking me about outside work (didn't take them up on it, but still nice to be asked).
No chance for being base in Colorado with FedEx -- we don't have any plans for a domicile there. That being said, we've got a great commuter setup -- lots of trips that originate in the west coast and Rocky Mountain regions, which would lead to more days at home for a Colorado guy. Layovers in COS or Denver would be a little harder; LOTS of ex-zoomies living in COS.
You're doing the right things now -- ask lots of questions and get lots of information. I've no doubt that getting out was the right decision for me, but no two situations are exactly the same, and you may come to an entirely different decision on what's right for you.
Good luck in the hunt,
Zulu
I'm an Eagle bro that bailed at 14 and I have absolutely no regrets. We (FedEx) are hiring like banshees right now, and it looks like it'll continue for at least the next few years (of course, that could all change tomorrow, such is this business
).As far as jumping at the end of your ADSC vs retiring, I recommend the middle road -- do the ANG/AFR thing. It doesn't have to be flying -- there are lots of IMA jobs out there that need a guy with wings on his chest and only require 2 days a month (or 4 every other month, in my case). That way, you keep a pretty decent military retirement (and, more importantly, retirement benefits) while building seniority and airline retirement.
The best thing about the airline gig is CONTROL. Want more time at home to watch the kids grow up? Put off that upgrade for a couple of years and enjoy the benefits of seniority in your seat. Got three kids in college
? Bid widebody captain at 100% -- you won't see mama much, but at least you'll be able to afford bacon with your beans. Either way, YOU (not your commander or AFPC) make the decision, and it has no impact on your long term career (unlike passing up upgrades, positions, etc in the military).The worst thing would have to be day-to-day stability. While the AF has been known to RIF, getting rid of pilots is a rarity. In this business, short notice furloughs are a fact of life. This can be mitigated quite a bit with an ANG/AFR job. Right now, my ANG unit would have me working every day if I would (which I won't -- I got off AD for a reason). Additionally, staying active with the reserves opens other opportunities -- I've had two unsolicited contacts this year from defense contractors asking me about outside work (didn't take them up on it, but still nice to be asked).
No chance for being base in Colorado with FedEx -- we don't have any plans for a domicile there. That being said, we've got a great commuter setup -- lots of trips that originate in the west coast and Rocky Mountain regions, which would lead to more days at home for a Colorado guy. Layovers in COS or Denver would be a little harder; LOTS of ex-zoomies living in COS.
You're doing the right things now -- ask lots of questions and get lots of information. I've no doubt that getting out was the right decision for me, but no two situations are exactly the same, and you may come to an entirely different decision on what's right for you.
Good luck in the hunt,
Zulu
12-01-2005, 07:47 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: B737, Capt.
Posts: 384
I'd say it depends on your current outlook. Do you still enjoy being on active duty? If you do, then stay. I decided that I'd rather do anything than stay active and left during the second worse airline downturn in history (1992). I knew that I could allways feed my family doing something. I flew in the reserves and had the time of my life and eventually retired. You could fly for the reserves/guard and do something on the side if you have to wait for the airlines. It depends on many factors, pleasure/displeasure w/ active duty, confidence in yourself (it's very competitive out there but of course you know about competition if you're flying F15's), and probably the most important, having your wife totally on board with the program and have her fully aware of the worst case senarios.
As far as your 'dream sheet' target of DEN/COS, you my be BVR. Is Buckley ANGB still open? If you decide to do reserves/guard and an airline, then you need to live at one of your two job's cities. Do not commute to both! If you make a clean cut with the Military and get an airline job, I highly reccommend that you don't commute. I am very blessed to have a passion for flying and for it also to be my job. It is however a job. I look at it as I'm being compensated for my time away from my family. I want the most pay for the least time away from my family. Total pay divided by hours away from home. If you commute, you greatly reduce your 'pay per hours away'. There are many that do the commute thing, but I tried it for 7 mo.'s and it nearly killed the joy of working for me. I moved tha family to MCO and never dreamed we could have had so much family time.
Whatever you decide, best wishes, and thank you for your service to our country.
As far as your 'dream sheet' target of DEN/COS, you my be BVR. Is Buckley ANGB still open? If you decide to do reserves/guard and an airline, then you need to live at one of your two job's cities. Do not commute to both! If you make a clean cut with the Military and get an airline job, I highly reccommend that you don't commute. I am very blessed to have a passion for flying and for it also to be my job. It is however a job. I look at it as I'm being compensated for my time away from my family. I want the most pay for the least time away from my family. Total pay divided by hours away from home. If you commute, you greatly reduce your 'pay per hours away'. There are many that do the commute thing, but I tried it for 7 mo.'s and it nearly killed the joy of working for me. I moved tha family to MCO and never dreamed we could have had so much family time.
Whatever you decide, best wishes, and thank you for your service to our country.
Last edited by SWAcapt; 12-01-2005 at 07:53 AM.
12-01-2005, 09:30 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
The job is fast becoming (or now is) a trade school vocation. The glory days are sadly behind us. Ask a 48 yr old DAL guy what he thinks about this business - and don't count on the cargo route to make the bucks - it's probably just a matter of time before they get hosed too. As long as there are the jet blueser's working for peanuts, we'll get paid peanuts (I am speakinmg about the whole pay structure (compensation AND benefits), not just a pay rate - . The pay rates/benefits will continue to stagnate or even get worse as long as the barriers to entry are so simple, ie. find a rich british guy with a music company to undrewrite the venture and put another US airline out of business
12-01-2005, 01:13 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
Originally Posted by cutnrun
Ask a 48 yr old DAL guy what he thinks about this business - and don't count on the cargo route to make the bucks - it's probably just a matter of time before they get hosed too.
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