JohnBurke

How many thousand resumes have you sent out? To how many job sites do you subscribe? How many years experience do you have? How many moves have you made to find work?

1,500 hours is just enough time to figure out how to open the door; it's nothing. That a wave of entitlement has overtaken expectation of a job is not reality, but a bubble wrought on by artificial industry pressure over the past few years. It was never the norm. There was never a pilot shortage, nor will there be. You may have to work to get that job you want, and it may not be the job you want.

It took me fifteen years to get into turbine equipment, of very hard work, one hell of a lot of sacrifice, a number of moves, and so on. We all have our path. The commonality of those paths is the culmination of employment, best summed up as "whatever it took to get here." It may take working for a freight carrier, flying grand canyon tours, hauling jumpers, towing banners, going corporate, fractional, flying ISR in Africa or the middle east, spraying crops, taking 135 jobs, doing aerial survey work, etc, to get to where ever it is that you want to be. So be it. To how many of those have you applied?

It may take reducing your income. Moving out of state. Leaving the country. Selling your things. Being gone for extended periods. Taking temporary or seasonal jobs. Spending time, possibly years, in jobs that don't pay what you hope or in the equipment not as prestigious as your ego wants. Getting dirty. It takes what it takes, and nothing less. Are you willing to do what it takes.

There was a time when kids slid out of their commercial checkride and into a regional seat. Those times don't exist any more. They, the many entitled who made that move, got lucky. There was a time when 1,500 hours and a wet ATP, or even ATP qualifications, were plenty to earn a fat bonus and a ticket to a regional cockpit, so long as you could fog a mirror and had a pulse, and when new pilots were so inexperienced and so wet behind the ears that they whined and complained that employers were trying to force them to be captains. Those times are crumbling, a recent relic of an upside down hiring field. Welcome to reality. it's not there yet, but you can make out the shape, through the fog.

Be aware that there is no place on a job application where one can enter sacrifice made, or money spent to get there. The employer doesn't care. The employer only cares that you're qualified, and competitive.

If you're familiar with hiring minimums, then you should know that published minimums are not the same as competitive minimums. Published minimums mean nothing. If the job states that the minimums for hiring are 1,500 hours, but everyone who applies has 15,000 hours, then meeting the bare minimum doesn't matter; you need 15,000 hours to be competitive on that day, in that place, for that job.

Southwest used to require a 737 type to be considered for a F/O position. Don't bother applying without one...so countless hopefulls went out to buy a type rating in a 737, only to not get the job. There's always just one more qualification that you need. One more certificate. One more rating. One more thousand hours of PIC, time in type, mountain experience, yada, yada, yada. You can chase the sunset all day long. It will still set, without you, and you won't catch it in time. You can keep chasing it, or turn around and chase the sunrise. It comes up faster that way, even though it's a different direction. You may not undestand that today, but one day, if you chase long enough, you will.

There are plenty of jobs out there. They may not be the job you want, but they may be the job you can get, that will get you where you want to be. Do that.

12oclockHi

Before we firehose 121noob any farther, we should recognize a basic human failing regarding expectations. Everyone, from lowly 1500 hr pilots to ex-presidents, have expectations based on recent history. We all desire outcomes based on the best cases we have seen and, conversely, at times can only see a bottomless pit where only a bump in the road may be. Being young doesn’t help as the observer of the present and recent past has little timeline to compare events with. I have one in the house, powering on toward something better (CFI approaching 1500 hrs) who got to witness his former instructor depart, without interruption, direct to Spirit Airlines this last year. I have counseled him his path may not be that easy. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than great.

Yes, these noob’s lack a perspective that recent events are not the norm, but it doesn’t mean you still can’t empathize with the opportunity lost by missing the (gravy) train.

60av8tor

I agree with your well written post, but I suspect your son/daughter's response to your counseling wasn't, you're nuts, you make no sense, there's no reason for me not to be hired, I'm vastly better that my peers, etc.


You can lack perspective out of ignorance or choice. When it starts to be clear it's by choice, the empathy starts to wane. Granted the internet is a horrible place for communication, but I've talked to a bunch of newbies over the years - just like I talked to a bunch of people when I was looking at entering 121. I enjoy helping others similar to how others helped me in the past. That usually means offering perspective other than their own. Never have I received more of a sense of - only tell me what I want to hear. As several people have mentioned, a pattern begins to be noticed.

Best of luck to your young CFI!

121noob

Yeah I realize I'm just a few months late on being able to go straight to a LCC or even possibly a major.... but right now I just want to go to a regional, which isn't possible now either. That's the irritating part about it.

121noob

Some good insight here, and also some bad advice.

The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.

And in 121 world going to RPA for instance and being placed under a legally-questionable and punitive draconian 4-5 year $100k contract, would also be very poor strategy too. That is short term thinking and I'm in this for the long game. Not to say I wouldn't be willing to temporarily work for low end crappy regionals, I would, but not even they are hiring right now.

AlikesitR

The fact you are willing to come on to APC and refer to some regionals as low end and crappy is the problem. Those are the same regionals that are refusing to give you an interview at the moment. Maybe you need to look inward for a second.

JohnBurke

I did not encourage anyone to work for an unsafe operator. Don't quote me and suggest that I did. Or infer it. I didn't. Speak for yourself. I speak very well for myself.

followingdreams

Your first part is correct, dont risk your certs or your life with an unsafe operator. Second part, you may want to revist. "The market now is not the same as when you were young" is ABSOLUTLEY correct! The other correct statement that you didnt say (but appear to be realizing) is "The market is not the same as it was 2 years ago". FO regional jobs are tough to find right now. 135 jobs are mostly tough because they want the ATP CTP done (for the good ones). Im not a fan of "training contracts" if you can get a job without one. My first 135 job required a 1 year training contract, I fulfilled it, left after 1 year, and now am at a career 135 operator. It was the best move I made and have not regerts (if you know you know). The Republic contract you call "draconian" may become the norm like it was not long ago (at least until they undershoot on the hiring side). I will be honest, I havent looked too much into the contract but what I think it is, is a 3 year contract with a $60k bonus when you make Captain. If you fail to meet the terms, you have a 100k penalty (really $40k because you got a $60k bonus). It will likely be 2-3 years AT BEST that you will be hired at a Major, if that is your goal. If you **** around and wait for another year + to find the job, guess what....you would have been out of your contract with Republic! Dont be pennywise, pound foolish. The last year of your career is likley $400-500k......Waiting a year because of "draconian" contracts will cost you that much! Lets not forget Republic is currently being sued so you stand a chance you sign it and it becomes unenforceable.

RippinClapBombs

Updated hiring numbers for American is 1,800 for 2024.

TransWorld

PreCovid the peak was just about half of this. 1,800 is still huge.