Part 121 hiring status in 2024?
#21
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,254
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1,500 hours is just enough time to figure out how to open the door; it's nothing. That a wave of entitlement has overtaken expectation of a job is not reality, but a bubble wrought on by artificial industry pressure over the past few years. It was never the norm. There was never a pilot shortage, nor will there be. You may have to work to get that job you want, and it may not be the job you want.
It took me fifteen years to get into turbine equipment, of very hard work, one hell of a lot of sacrifice, a number of moves, and so on. We all have our path. The commonality of those paths is the culmination of employment, best summed up as "whatever it took to get here." It may take working for a freight carrier, flying grand canyon tours, hauling jumpers, towing banners, going corporate, fractional, flying ISR in Africa or the middle east, spraying crops, taking 135 jobs, doing aerial survey work, etc, to get to where ever it is that you want to be. So be it. To how many of those have you applied?
It may take reducing your income. Moving out of state. Leaving the country. Selling your things. Being gone for extended periods. Taking temporary or seasonal jobs. Spending time, possibly years, in jobs that don't pay what you hope or in the equipment not as prestigious as your ego wants. Getting dirty. It takes what it takes, and nothing less. Are you willing to do what it takes.
There was a time when kids slid out of their commercial checkride and into a regional seat. Those times don't exist any more. They, the many entitled who made that move, got lucky. There was a time when 1,500 hours and a wet ATP, or even ATP qualifications, were plenty to earn a fat bonus and a ticket to a regional cockpit, so long as you could fog a mirror and had a pulse, and when new pilots were so inexperienced and so wet behind the ears that they whined and complained that employers were trying to force them to be captains. Those times are crumbling, a recent relic of an upside down hiring field. Welcome to reality. it's not there yet, but you can make out the shape, through the fog.
Be aware that there is no place on a job application where one can enter sacrifice made, or money spent to get there. The employer doesn't care. The employer only cares that you're qualified, and competitive.
If you're familiar with hiring minimums, then you should know that published minimums are not the same as competitive minimums. Published minimums mean nothing. If the job states that the minimums for hiring are 1,500 hours, but everyone who applies has 15,000 hours, then meeting the bare minimum doesn't matter; you need 15,000 hours to be competitive on that day, in that place, for that job.
Southwest used to require a 737 type to be considered for a F/O position. Don't bother applying without one...so countless hopefulls went out to buy a type rating in a 737, only to not get the job. There's always just one more qualification that you need. One more certificate. One more rating. One more thousand hours of PIC, time in type, mountain experience, yada, yada, yada. You can chase the sunset all day long. It will still set, without you, and you won't catch it in time. You can keep chasing it, or turn around and chase the sunrise. It comes up faster that way, even though it's a different direction. You may not undestand that today, but one day, if you chase long enough, you will.
There are plenty of jobs out there. They may not be the job you want, but they may be the job you can get, that will get you where you want to be. Do that.
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#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Position: Many reclined
Posts: 33
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Before we firehose 121noob any farther, we should recognize a basic human failing regarding expectations. Everyone, from lowly 1500 hr pilots to ex-presidents, have expectations based on recent history. We all desire outcomes based on the best cases we have seen and, conversely, at times can only see a bottomless pit where only a bump in the road may be. Being young doesn’t help as the observer of the present and recent past has little timeline to compare events with. I have one in the house, powering on toward something better (CFI approaching 1500 hrs) who got to witness his former instructor depart, without interruption, direct to Spirit Airlines this last year. I have counseled him his path may not be that easy. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than great.
Yes, these noob’s lack a perspective that recent events are not the norm, but it doesn’t mean you still can’t empathize with the opportunity lost by missing the (gravy) train.
Yes, these noob’s lack a perspective that recent events are not the norm, but it doesn’t mean you still can’t empathize with the opportunity lost by missing the (gravy) train.
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 586
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Best of luck to your young CFI!
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Position: 135 SIC
Posts: 200
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I have one in the house, powering on toward something better (CFI approaching 1500 hrs) who got to witness his former instructor depart, without interruption, direct to Spirit Airlines this last year. I have counseled him his path may not be that easy. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than great.
Yes, these noob’s lack a perspective that recent events are not the norm, but it doesn’t mean you still can’t empathize with the opportunity lost by missing the (gravy) train.
Yes, these noob’s lack a perspective that recent events are not the norm, but it doesn’t mean you still can’t empathize with the opportunity lost by missing the (gravy) train.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Position: 135 SIC
Posts: 200
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How many thousand resumes have you sent out? To how many job sites do you subscribe? How many years experience do you have? How many moves have you made to find work?
1,500 hours is just enough time to figure out how to open the door; it's nothing. That a wave of entitlement has overtaken expectation of a job is not reality, but a bubble wrought on by artificial industry pressure over the past few years. It was never the norm. There was never a pilot shortage, nor will there be. You may have to work to get that job you want, and it may not be the job you want.
It took me fifteen years to get into turbine equipment, of very hard work, one hell of a lot of sacrifice, a number of moves, and so on. We all have our path. The commonality of those paths is the culmination of employment, best summed up as "whatever it took to get here." It may take working for a freight carrier, flying grand canyon tours, hauling jumpers, towing banners, going corporate, fractional, flying ISR in Africa or the middle east, spraying crops, taking 135 jobs, doing aerial survey work, etc, to get to where ever it is that you want to be. So be it. To how many of those have you applied?
It may take reducing your income. Moving out of state. Leaving the country. Selling your things. Being gone for extended periods. Taking temporary or seasonal jobs. Spending time, possibly years, in jobs that don't pay what you hope or in the equipment not as prestigious as your ego wants. Getting dirty. It takes what it takes, and nothing less. Are you willing to do what it takes.
There was a time when kids slid out of their commercial checkride and into a regional seat. Those times don't exist any more. They, the many entitled who made that move, got lucky. There was a time when 1,500 hours and a wet ATP, or even ATP qualifications, were plenty to earn a fat bonus and a ticket to a regional cockpit, so long as you could fog a mirror and had a pulse, and when new pilots were so inexperienced and so wet behind the ears that they whined and complained that employers were trying to force them to be captains. Those times are crumbling, a recent relic of an upside down hiring field. Welcome to reality. it's not there yet, but you can make out the shape, through the fog.
Be aware that there is no place on a job application where one can enter sacrifice made, or money spent to get there. The employer doesn't care. The employer only cares that you're qualified, and competitive.
If you're familiar with hiring minimums, then you should know that published minimums are not the same as competitive minimums. Published minimums mean nothing. If the job states that the minimums for hiring are 1,500 hours, but everyone who applies has 15,000 hours, then meeting the bare minimum doesn't matter; you need 15,000 hours to be competitive on that day, in that place, for that job.
Southwest used to require a 737 type to be considered for a F/O position. Don't bother applying without one...so countless hopefulls went out to buy a type rating in a 737, only to not get the job. There's always just one more qualification that you need. One more certificate. One more rating. One more thousand hours of PIC, time in type, mountain experience, yada, yada, yada. You can chase the sunset all day long. It will still set, without you, and you won't catch it in time. You can keep chasing it, or turn around and chase the sunrise. It comes up faster that way, even though it's a different direction. You may not undestand that today, but one day, if you chase long enough, you will.
There are plenty of jobs out there. They may not be the job you want, but they may be the job you can get, that will get you where you want to be. Do that.
1,500 hours is just enough time to figure out how to open the door; it's nothing. That a wave of entitlement has overtaken expectation of a job is not reality, but a bubble wrought on by artificial industry pressure over the past few years. It was never the norm. There was never a pilot shortage, nor will there be. You may have to work to get that job you want, and it may not be the job you want.
It took me fifteen years to get into turbine equipment, of very hard work, one hell of a lot of sacrifice, a number of moves, and so on. We all have our path. The commonality of those paths is the culmination of employment, best summed up as "whatever it took to get here." It may take working for a freight carrier, flying grand canyon tours, hauling jumpers, towing banners, going corporate, fractional, flying ISR in Africa or the middle east, spraying crops, taking 135 jobs, doing aerial survey work, etc, to get to where ever it is that you want to be. So be it. To how many of those have you applied?
It may take reducing your income. Moving out of state. Leaving the country. Selling your things. Being gone for extended periods. Taking temporary or seasonal jobs. Spending time, possibly years, in jobs that don't pay what you hope or in the equipment not as prestigious as your ego wants. Getting dirty. It takes what it takes, and nothing less. Are you willing to do what it takes.
There was a time when kids slid out of their commercial checkride and into a regional seat. Those times don't exist any more. They, the many entitled who made that move, got lucky. There was a time when 1,500 hours and a wet ATP, or even ATP qualifications, were plenty to earn a fat bonus and a ticket to a regional cockpit, so long as you could fog a mirror and had a pulse, and when new pilots were so inexperienced and so wet behind the ears that they whined and complained that employers were trying to force them to be captains. Those times are crumbling, a recent relic of an upside down hiring field. Welcome to reality. it's not there yet, but you can make out the shape, through the fog.
Be aware that there is no place on a job application where one can enter sacrifice made, or money spent to get there. The employer doesn't care. The employer only cares that you're qualified, and competitive.
If you're familiar with hiring minimums, then you should know that published minimums are not the same as competitive minimums. Published minimums mean nothing. If the job states that the minimums for hiring are 1,500 hours, but everyone who applies has 15,000 hours, then meeting the bare minimum doesn't matter; you need 15,000 hours to be competitive on that day, in that place, for that job.
Southwest used to require a 737 type to be considered for a F/O position. Don't bother applying without one...so countless hopefulls went out to buy a type rating in a 737, only to not get the job. There's always just one more qualification that you need. One more certificate. One more rating. One more thousand hours of PIC, time in type, mountain experience, yada, yada, yada. You can chase the sunset all day long. It will still set, without you, and you won't catch it in time. You can keep chasing it, or turn around and chase the sunrise. It comes up faster that way, even though it's a different direction. You may not undestand that today, but one day, if you chase long enough, you will.
There are plenty of jobs out there. They may not be the job you want, but they may be the job you can get, that will get you where you want to be. Do that.
The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.
And in 121 world going to RPA for instance and being placed under a legally-questionable and punitive draconian 4-5 year $100k contract, would also be very poor strategy too. That is short term thinking and I'm in this for the long game. Not to say I wouldn't be willing to temporarily work for low end crappy regionals, I would, but not even they are hiring right now.
#26
Reserve Without End
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 147
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Some good insight here, and also some bad advice.
The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.
And in 121 world going to RPA for instance and being placed under a legally-questionable and punitive draconian 4-5 year $100k contract, would also be very poor strategy too. That is short term thinking and I'm in this for the long game. Not to say I wouldn't be willing to temporarily work for low end crappy regionals, I would, but not even they are hiring right now.
The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.
And in 121 world going to RPA for instance and being placed under a legally-questionable and punitive draconian 4-5 year $100k contract, would also be very poor strategy too. That is short term thinking and I'm in this for the long game. Not to say I wouldn't be willing to temporarily work for low end crappy regionals, I would, but not even they are hiring right now.
#27
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,254
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Some good insight here, and also some bad advice.
The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.
The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 223
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Some good insight here, and also some bad advice.
The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.
And in 121 world going to RPA for instance and being placed under a legally-questionable and punitive draconian 4-5 year $100k contract, would also be very poor strategy too. That is short term thinking and I'm in this for the long game. Not to say I wouldn't be willing to temporarily work for low end crappy regionals, I would, but not even they are hiring right now.
The market now is not the same as it was when you were young. Also, taking the first job, regardless of what it is, is horrible advice. If I were time building, working for an unsafe operator that would jeapordize my certs or my life would be very poor decision making.
And in 121 world going to RPA for instance and being placed under a legally-questionable and punitive draconian 4-5 year $100k contract, would also be very poor strategy too. That is short term thinking and I'm in this for the long game. Not to say I wouldn't be willing to temporarily work for low end crappy regionals, I would, but not even they are hiring right now.
#29
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Delta has indeed slowed ... to 1000 per year.
If UA and AA keep at 2K each, that still exceeds hiring for the entire industry from 2009-2014
To whatever extent the captain vacuum slows down, the regionals will increase hiring.
It's a weird labor market, but (Spirit aside) everybody is making money
If UA and AA keep at 2K each, that still exceeds hiring for the entire industry from 2009-2014
To whatever extent the captain vacuum slows down, the regionals will increase hiring.
It's a weird labor market, but (Spirit aside) everybody is making money
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