Combining with Alaska Airlines for a Stronger
12-07-2023, 07:51 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 694
Moonwolf, I read your post before you took it down and I absolutely understand your concerns. This will be merger #3 for me. I've been on both sides of the Acquired/Aqcuire fence. Neither situation is what I would consider a good time.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
12-07-2023, 08:26 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 245
Moonwolf, I read your post before you took it down and I absolutely understand your concerns. This will be merger #3 for me. I've been on both sides of the Acquired/Aqcuire fence. Neither situation is what I would consider a good time.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
12-07-2023, 11:50 AM
#103
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 59
Moonwolf, I read your post before you took it down and I absolutely understand your concerns. This will be merger #3 for me. I've been on both sides of the Acquired/Aqcuire fence. Neither situation is what I would consider a good time.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
https://localcareglobalreach.com/wp-...esentation.pdf Saw this on a different board, a brief to Alaska's investors. The only thing I question outright in this brief is that they say the 717 is at half its life. It does have life, but not another 25 years at 12 cycles per day per airframe. The rest is pretty much what the non-naysayers are saying about the merger, all makes sense. Nothing too specific, but they do like the fact that many of the HA planes are owned outright (suprised HA has better lease terms, but another good thing in the deal).
12-07-2023, 12:29 PM
#104
just past ETP
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Cruise Captain
Posts: 508
https://localcareglobalreach.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Alaska-Airlines-Investor-Presentation.pdf Saw this on a different board, a brief to Alaska's investors. The only thing I question outright in this brief is that they say the 717 is at half its life. It does have life, but not another 25 years at 12 cycles per day per airframe. The rest is pretty much what the non-naysayers are saying about the merger, all makes sense. Nothing too specific, but they do like the fact that many of the HA planes are owned outright (suprised HA has better lease terms, but another good thing in the deal).
The problem with the 717 is the spare parts.
12-07-2023, 01:19 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Sleeping
Posts: 1,047
Moonwolf, I read your post before you took it down and I absolutely understand your concerns. This will be merger #3 for me. I've been on both sides of the Acquired/Aqcuire fence. Neither situation is what I would consider a good time.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
What I've come to accept through those experiences, is, we have zero control over what's about to happen and when the dust settles, our energy is best spent working together to make as many gains as possible in the upcoming JCBA
Some things that I see as positives for this shotgun wedding are:
SLI is usually the most contentious aspect of any merger, but this time around, I see little overlap. Both companies are big with hiring locally. Pilots go to HA for the base just like a large portion of AS pilots come here for the base/region. I don't think your seniority will see much, if any, shift downward. Very few AS pilots are going to willingly commute for 5 hours. In fact, I would put money on there being more HA pilots that will benefit from having access to West Coast Bases. Your in base seniority may even creep up a bit. If you're concerned that everyone will flock to the WB flying, I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if AS doesn't put a WB base in SEA or one of our other West Coast bases. That will mitigate any large numbers of commuting pilots from heading west. I'm completely confident you will remain in your airplane, retain your current qol and realize your career expectations.
This is a growth acquisition. Unlike the last one, HA and AS only compete on a handful of routes. VX had been in AS' cross hairs since they flew their first flight. They were taking pax right out of AS' pocket. AS has no reason to shutter HA or ditch the WB flying. They want to compete with the big 3 off the West Coast. I think they realize they have a shot at rattling DL's cage in SEA. A while back, when we joined One World, they put out some post stating how many WB we would fill for AA.... I think a light bulb went off and they realized, if they could fill X amount of AA widebodies, why not fill our own??? I see the WB fleet growing, perhaps doubling from HA's current fleet numbers. Further cementing you into your WB seat and current QOL with the additional pay and improved work rules we can gain in the JCBA.
with Alaska's aircraft order 70 something max planes would that just slowly replace the 330/321s and 5-10 years ago those are history.
You can tell I don’t like the unknown!
12-07-2023, 01:31 PM
#106
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 59
The 717 is essentially a DC9, made by McDonnal Douglas.. night and day in terms of cycles and hours lifespan relative to Boeing and Airbus.. the average DC9 flew to over 100,000 Cycles and 75000 hours by the time Delta/Nortwest et al retired them.
The problem with the 717 is the spare parts.
The problem with the 717 is the spare parts.
12-07-2023, 04:19 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 313
Yep, have the DC9 type rating, tough plane...12 cycles a day for 11 months a year puts 99,000 cycles at 25 years, the average life of HA's 717s. Agree that parts will likely dry up before cycles, either way for cycles or sustainability it is not at half its useable life, more like 80% would be my guess. Delta is the largest operator (of 3, Qantas Link being the 3rd) and the 717 will go when they stop flying it, however they announced plans to put wifi in their 717s in 2024 so I think it easily does have 5 years-ish on its sustainable life, maybe more, but not another 25.
12-07-2023, 05:18 PM
#108
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 59
HA should have just told them to save the flight and stay in HNL...they might be missing a few parts, but hey...
12-07-2023, 10:16 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 694
I hear what you’re saying. Maybe I live in a world of negativity because there are an awful lot of comments that seem to make it like we’ve struck the lottery. When you say things like “this is growth” “ your plane will stay the same” I just don’t believe it. Are we just repeating what management types are saying? How do you know any of that? Will the 321s be gone 2-3 years from now?
with Alaska's aircraft order 70 something max planes would that just slowly replace the 330/321s and 5-10 years ago those are history.
You can tell I don’t like the unknown!
with Alaska's aircraft order 70 something max planes would that just slowly replace the 330/321s and 5-10 years ago those are history.
You can tell I don’t like the unknown!
I honestly don't know any more than the next guy and am only speculating.
Based on AS' history with the 321, yes, I'd expect them to be sold off and replaced by the MAX. The 330 will most likely be phased out in favor of a larger 787 fleet. AS loves their streamlined fleets.
The timeline on when these things take place is anybody guess. Just based off of our recent merger, it's gonna be 3-5 years until any measurable changes are felt by the pilots.
We've got to get DOJ approval, JCBA, SLI, any fences around the WB etc. This is why I think you're going to sitting comfortably in your airplane for a long time to come. By the time any fence comes down, there will most likely be other WB bases to mitigate any potential migration of AS pilots to HNL.
12-08-2023, 06:28 AM
#110
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,782
I don't have dog in this, but I'm hopeful for both groups to have amazing careers. I am concerned about the Hawaiian brand despite of what's been said so far. I could totally see Alaska try and dabble in WB flying from CONUS to elsewhere using HAL WB's only to get clobbered by the competition only to "return to basics" by getting rid of the WB's and going back to 737 MAX. Also, I could see the 717 flying going by the way of Horizon and Skywest using E175's.
Hope I'm wrong.
Hope I'm wrong.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
