Hawaiian Hiring FOs
05-01-2023, 10:11 AM
#191
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 196
I have a couple related questions that hopefully someone can offer an informed opinion on, either from knowing how Hawaiian specifically intends to structure this, or how other Amazon carriers do it.
1. If a person bids reserve (doing freight) how many days a month will they likely be gone on average?
2. Is reserve likely to go junior or senior? I would basically view a day of long call not used as a day off, so I'd imagine other pilots also would, so if a long call reserve pilot was home 19 days and a line holder was home 15, then maybe reserve would go more senior, however that's not always how it works, if reserve puts you 6 days a month on hot reserve in a hotel, then it would probably go junior.
I guess what I'm asking is really pretty simple, how many days are the freight pilots likely to be gone each month from home?
Thanks
1. If a person bids reserve (doing freight) how many days a month will they likely be gone on average?
2. Is reserve likely to go junior or senior? I would basically view a day of long call not used as a day off, so I'd imagine other pilots also would, so if a long call reserve pilot was home 19 days and a line holder was home 15, then maybe reserve would go more senior, however that's not always how it works, if reserve puts you 6 days a month on hot reserve in a hotel, then it would probably go junior.
I guess what I'm asking is really pretty simple, how many days are the freight pilots likely to be gone each month from home?
Thanks
2) Again, really impossible to know at this point. I would guess long call will be somewhere in the middle seniority wise.
There is no short call or hot reserve lines. Those duties will be built into multiple day trips and bid upon in PBS, or drop into open time, or subsequently assigned to a long call reserve pilot.
Plan for the worst case, which is 16 days, using PBS this could be bid in any number of ways (2 on 2 off, 8 on 7 off, or 16 on 14 off).
05-01-2023, 10:46 AM
#192
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 173
1) Freight bid pilots will be gone no more than 16 days. It’s impossible to know how few days it could be, as we don’t know what the flying will look like, but strictly on trip rig alone it could be as few as 12 days.
2) Again, really impossible to know at this point. I would guess long call will be somewhere in the middle seniority wise.
There is no short call or hot reserve lines. Those duties will be built into multiple day trips and bid upon in PBS, or drop into open time, or subsequently assigned to a long call reserve pilot.
Plan for the worst case, which is 16 days, using PBS this could be bid in any number of ways (2 on 2 off, 8 on 7 off, or 16 on 14 off).
2) Again, really impossible to know at this point. I would guess long call will be somewhere in the middle seniority wise.
There is no short call or hot reserve lines. Those duties will be built into multiple day trips and bid upon in PBS, or drop into open time, or subsequently assigned to a long call reserve pilot.
Plan for the worst case, which is 16 days, using PBS this could be bid in any number of ways (2 on 2 off, 8 on 7 off, or 16 on 14 off).
It occurs to me that maybe what I want to know is what a day of short call or hot reserve is worth in the contract. Could they move you from long call over to short call or hot reserve for an entire 16 day block and have that result in your minimum guarantee? Or would that pay more, or just not be contractually allowed? I think some carriers have a maximum amount of days that a pilot can be moved from long call to short call in a month.
Also, does anyone know where I could read the actual contract? Is that publicly available?
05-01-2023, 12:23 PM
#193
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 6
Thanks so much for the reply,
It occurs to me that maybe what I want to know is what a day of short call or hot reserve is worth in the contract. Could they move you from long call over to short call or hot reserve for an entire 16 day block and have that result in your minimum guarantee? Or would that pay more, or just not be contractually allowed? I think some carriers have a maximum amount of days that a pilot can be moved from long call to short call in a month.
Also, does anyone know where I could read the actual contract? Is that publicly available?
It occurs to me that maybe what I want to know is what a day of short call or hot reserve is worth in the contract. Could they move you from long call over to short call or hot reserve for an entire 16 day block and have that result in your minimum guarantee? Or would that pay more, or just not be contractually allowed? I think some carriers have a maximum amount of days that a pilot can be moved from long call to short call in a month.
Also, does anyone know where I could read the actual contract? Is that publicly available?
05-01-2023, 04:19 PM
#194
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 196
Thanks so much for the reply,
It occurs to me that maybe what I want to know is what a day of short call or hot reserve is worth in the contract. Could they move you from long call over to short call or hot reserve for an entire 16 day block and have that result in your minimum guarantee? Or would that pay more, or just not be contractually allowed? I think some carriers have a maximum amount of days that a pilot can be moved from long call to short call in a month.
Also, does anyone know where I could read the actual contract? Is that publicly available?
It occurs to me that maybe what I want to know is what a day of short call or hot reserve is worth in the contract. Could they move you from long call over to short call or hot reserve for an entire 16 day block and have that result in your minimum guarantee? Or would that pay more, or just not be contractually allowed? I think some carriers have a maximum amount of days that a pilot can be moved from long call to short call in a month.
Also, does anyone know where I could read the actual contract? Is that publicly available?
All short call and hot reserve must be built into at minimum 2 day blocks and are treated the same as a trip, so you get a hotel for the night even if in domicile. You are paid either the min day pay or trip rig (3.5/1) whichever is greater. So a 2 day block of short call reserve would pay at least 10 hours.
Long call guarantee is 70 hours for 18 days with 20 hour call out.
No limit on conversion, but they can’t force you over 90 hours of credit. A 13 day block of short call with trip rig would put you at 89 hours and change, and you would be done for the month.
05-02-2023, 02:21 PM
#195
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 173
Min day pay is 4.7 for the first year of freight operations, then it becomes 5 hours per day. There is a formula which if triggered increases it to 5.25 and/or 5.5 hours per day.
All short call and hot reserve must be built into at minimum 2 day blocks and are treated the same as a trip, so you get a hotel for the night even if in domicile. You are paid either the min day pay or trip rig (3.5/1) whichever is greater. So a 2 day block of short call reserve would pay at least 10 hours.
Long call guarantee is 70 hours for 18 days with 20 hour call out.
No limit on conversion, but they can’t force you over 90 hours of credit. A 13 day block of short call with trip rig would put you at 89 hours and change, and you would be done for the month.
All short call and hot reserve must be built into at minimum 2 day blocks and are treated the same as a trip, so you get a hotel for the night even if in domicile. You are paid either the min day pay or trip rig (3.5/1) whichever is greater. So a 2 day block of short call reserve would pay at least 10 hours.
Long call guarantee is 70 hours for 18 days with 20 hour call out.
No limit on conversion, but they can’t force you over 90 hours of credit. A 13 day block of short call with trip rig would put you at 89 hours and change, and you would be done for the month.
That's a perfect explanation, thanks again.
05-03-2023, 12:38 PM
#196
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 472
Yea I wouldn’t be too certain a bid for the remaining 6 are in one bid, maybe 2-3. Only reason I suspect that is the new training requirement to get the respect bid award
trained within 4 months.
Those freights pilots would be sitting around waiting for freight IOE.
All 6 I would imagine come incrementally throughout the year since they’re being converted as we speak.
As to the bidding freight vs. pax from the next poster’s question, who knows. There seems to be a pool for future freighter FOs.
trained within 4 months.
Those freights pilots would be sitting around waiting for freight IOE.
All 6 I would imagine come incrementally throughout the year since they’re being converted as we speak.
As to the bidding freight vs. pax from the next poster’s question, who knows. There seems to be a pool for future freighter FOs.
Any current 330 pax pilot only needs about a week to complete differences and 1 IOE trip.
05-03-2023, 12:45 PM
#197
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 472
1) Freight bid pilots will be gone no more than 16 days. It’s impossible to know how few days it could be, as we don’t know what the flying will look like, but strictly on trip rig alone it could be as few as 12 days.
2) Again, really impossible to know at this point. I would guess long call will be somewhere in the middle seniority wise.
There is no short call or hot reserve lines. Those duties will be built into multiple day trips and bid upon in PBS, or drop into open time, or subsequently assigned to a long call reserve pilot.
Plan for the worst case, which is 16 days, using PBS this could be bid in any number of ways (2 on 2 off, 8 on 7 off, or 16 on 14 off).
2) Again, really impossible to know at this point. I would guess long call will be somewhere in the middle seniority wise.
There is no short call or hot reserve lines. Those duties will be built into multiple day trips and bid upon in PBS, or drop into open time, or subsequently assigned to a long call reserve pilot.
Plan for the worst case, which is 16 days, using PBS this could be bid in any number of ways (2 on 2 off, 8 on 7 off, or 16 on 14 off).
Doing rough math, a 16 day trip (very unlikely) would pay roughly 102 hrs per the rig. I think the Union said anything over 11 days straight would break guarantee.. Union doubts a trip would ever get close to being that long. Many pilots would love 11 on/ 19-20 off.
General consensus is 4-6 day trips 13-15 days of work, however that combination works out.
05-08-2023, 01:06 PM
#198
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 57
Just out of curiosity, what do the trips to the South Pacific islands like Tahiti, Rarotonga, and Pago Pago look like? All A330 I’m guessing? How senior on the FO side do they go? Always been intrigued with these islands since I was a kid and would love to fly there, but curious about the realities.
05-08-2023, 01:26 PM
#199
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Position: PT-17, Rear
Posts: 41
Just out of curiosity, what do the trips to the South Pacific islands like Tahiti, Rarotonga, and Pago Pago look like? All A330 I’m guessing? How senior on the FO side do they go? Always been intrigued with these islands since I was a kid and would love to fly there, but curious about the realities.
RAR will be a 3 day on the 321.
05-08-2023, 06:18 PM
#200
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 400
Just out of curiosity, what do the trips to the South Pacific islands like Tahiti, Rarotonga, and Pago Pago look like? All A330 I’m guessing? How senior on the FO side do they go? Always been intrigued with these islands since I was a kid and would love to fly there, but curious about the realities.
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