CBreezy

This.

I'd also like to point out that before the late 90s and even in some respects early 2000s, the internet wasn't really prevalent or accessible enough for websites like this to exist as a gateway of information to the masses. The only way many pilot hopefuls received their industry insider information was either knowing someone or listening to recruiters. Digital networking wasn't even really a thing until late 2000s so there was virtually no easily accessible information about how bad this industry was until relatively recently. Even journalists really didn't have an incentive to cover because it was always outweighed by the massive income potential that every good airline spokesman and high school career guide said existed.

twebb

+1

This website started in 2005 and i didnt find it until 2007, the same year I finished all my training. The only info I knew before that was from a NW captain and FO telling me how great the job is. I never saw a payscale or knew what to expect before finding this site.

I also wish in college they taught contract negotiations where you could learn all the definitions and what companies offer besides straight pay.

TheFly

Good point. There are quite a few qualified 121 regional pilots that can't get a call.

Grumbletrousers

That delusional demographic that you invented doesn't exist. Most of the people that enter into professional aviation know exactly what they're getting themselves into when they begin flight training.

Anyone just getting out of college will tell you that pay and benefits mostly outweigh QOL. Especially when you have student loans that need to be paid.

Unlike the old days where you could go to the airlines with 250 hours, new FARs mandate that you enter in the airlines with a full ATP (1500hrs) or a R-ATP (1000-1250hrs). Meaning that even before getting into the airlines, you're going to have to take a job that requires only a Commercial or CFI. A job which will most likely pay $18-25 an hour part-time with no benefits.

Meanwhile, student loans that can be as high as $1000 a month right after graduation. So yeah those lucky enough can go back and live with their parents while the try and build time for a better job. Those who aren't that lucky are stuck living with 3-5 other people on foodstamps just trying to get by.

Remember also these aren't regular loans you can default on, these lenders can garnish wages, rescind state income tax refunds, and even have your licenses revoked. My best friend had his diploma withheld until he began to make payments making it impossible for him to get his R-ATP.

So before you go jumping to conclusions thinking we're all entitled brats, remember most of us have 2-3 years before we even see a jet after getting our licenses. After which we have to get paid one-fourth of what mainline pilots get paid flying the same routes, and we likely won't be at the majors until we're 30-35 years old, or about 10-15 years after graduation. All while trying to make a decent living for us and our loved ones.

galaxy flyer

Grumbletrousers

There was a very limited period of time one where could get hired with 250 hours and a wet CPL. Most regionals had much higher requirements and the legacies were always much higher. FAR 135 mins are essentially ATP mins except for the 1200 hour rule.

In the real old days, I had a friend with a ATP ASMEL with 4,000 hours of dual given in a Cherokee thought he had hit the jackpot by getting job flying a BE-99 and moved for it. It has ALWAYS been a tough road with limited opportunities and an excess of pilots.

Grumbletrousers

I don't doubt that. I don't want to make it seem as though we have it harder then anyone ever has. We dont. But we certainly don't have it easier. It just agitates me when people assume we're all entitled.

GogglesPisano

Dude, compared to what we went through in the 1990's, when you needed 1,200 TT and at least 250 Multi to even hope for a chance to buy an $18K/yr job at a commuter (probably a crapped-out 19-seater at that) You've got it easy. If you didn't have the cash to buy a job you'd need 2,500/500 to be competitive. That meant a year or two of hauling checks or 135.

Having to wait 2-3 years to fly a jet, my God, how do you cope?

John Carr

Wait?!?!?!! WHAT???? You mean it's NOT LIKE THAT?!?!?!?!!


Not a contest, but it's been pointed out in debates for quite some time now. The "baby boomers" we're able to reap similar timing.

Although over the course of their lives, baby boomers will probably have paid more into the system over time.

This is true. Your day/my day when the road was much much different.

Although talking to some of the RJ FO's I run into, I don't really envy the 6-7-8 year upgrades they're looking at either.

LRSRanger

Ah yes, that "E" word always comes up when we talk about the next generation, doesn't it?

Maybe I am entitled. I spent 8 years in the Army running around a god forsaken desert, and now I'm 31 years old with a wife and 3 young children. After flight school (which I did concurrent with working a full time job and taking college classes) I spent 2 years flying for crappy 135 operators living in shady locations on food stamps. Usually not around at night, so my young family was home alone in the ghetto at night.

I would like, and I think pilots deserve a job that provides a reasonable level of safety and security for my/our families. So if you think all of us young guys are entitled, you go right ahead. I'll call it simple economics. At least I'll finish with the same wife and kids I started with; some things aren't worth the sacrifice.

Till they pay a decent wage and provide decent QOL they can take their 121 certificate and shove it right up their 4th point of contact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MartinBishop

The reality is that burdensome and overbearing regulations keep the cost of flying high (121 can scale the economics to compensate though), but in order for the smaller operators to still be in business costs have to be cut somewhere, and that is labor. In other words, the government is keeping less experienced pilots poor.

Obviously a 10,000TT pilot is (usually) worth more than a 500 hr pilot, and should be paid as such. However there is no excuse not to be able to make a living wage as a low time professional pilot. But this isn't possible because of the way the government has structured the regulations.