JamesNoBrakes

It's a matter of perspective. Sure, I KNOW we have good intentions and a better society than much of the world. But what if you are the "next camp over" and the one that used to be there is now smoldering because drones wiped it out. Now what if you knew the people killed? Think about how they have no internet/reliable information/education? Now think about every Middle East country we've done that in, it's more than just Iraq an Afghanistan. Every time we take out that 1% "over there" we automatically regenerate it. You can't realistically win a war against an unorganized entity and culture with bombs. You can pick and choose to eliminate threats that seem much more dangerous to us than others, but IMO you can't get overzealous and think you are going to end the problem with bombs, given the perspective of those who live there.

Grumble

Ok, in an urban environment how do you satisfy positive target ID without killing civilians? Without boots/intel sources on the ground? Who mans the divert fields such as BIAP, Al Asad, Balad, etc?

It's not as simple as running some Preds into country and raining missiles on anyone that doesn't look right.

Timbo

I'm pretty sure we can see convoys of bad guys heading for the oil refineries and into Baghdad. Why wait until -after- they've arrived to take them out?

And why are all these Iraqi Security Forces we've trained and armed for the past 10 years, dropping their weapons and running away??

badflaps

The same reason they had in '91 whatever that was...

brianb

It's the killing of innocent civilians that maintains the hate for the west. If it were here, you can bet you would feel the same. What was that movie? Red Dawn?

jungle

They are going to go on killing innocents as long as they live, if we aren't there they find great sport and amusement killing each other. Over a few disputed words in a book.

The older I get the more I like the Swiss model, neutrality can be a wonderful thing.

A person born in the 1930's has barely had ten years without war in their lifetime, endless war hasn't really done much for us or anyone else.

Sum Ting Wong

The other day, a spokesperson for ISIS was quoted to the effect that material advancement is not important, that only religious advancement is. So these fanatics are not only mass murderers but also are opposed to material prosperity. They not only wish to take everyone back to the religion of the Middle Ages, they would be perfectly happy for everyone to wallow in the material standards of living from those times as well. ISIS makes the Iranians look like moderates.

The West is not ready for the ideological struggle involved. Our elites are so invested in the multicultural heresy they are unable, indeed unwilling, to defend the intellectual, philosophical, and religious heritage that made the West. So afraid to hurt someone's feelings, we censor our own. So adverse to disrespecting anyone's culture's intellectual history, we ignore our own. So wary of using our liberty in the face of those viewing such as perversion, we restrict ourselves.

And worse is coming. It has been estimated that, at present birth and immigration rates, Britain will become a majority Muslim state by 2050. Does anyone believe such will not have profound cultural, philosophical, intellectual, and even material effects?

Our ancestors resisted invasion from Muslim conquerors for 1,000 years, then, with enormous sacrifice and mis-steps, created the intellectual and philosophical framework that has lifted billions of peoples of all races, religions, and beliefs from poverty, creating the freest, most prosperous, healthiest society in human history. And we are now busily throwing it away in a generation to the new barbarians because we are too lazy to defend what we are.

Timbo

Shortly after 9-11, I did some reading, to try to figure out why they hate the West so much.

In my search for answers, I came across this book:
What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East: Bernard Lewis: 9780060516055: Amazon.com: Books

I highly recommend it, if you are still wondering 'what went wrong'.

From the review:

"For centuries, the world of Islam was in the forefront of human achievement -- the foremost military and economic power in the world, the leader in the arts and sciences of civilization. Christian Europe was seen as an outer darkness of barbarism and unbelief from which there was nothing to learn or to fear. And then everything changed. The West won victory after victory, first on the battlefield and then in the marketplace.

In this elegantly written volume, Bernard Lewis, a renowned authority an Islamic affairs, examines the anguished reaction of the Islamic world as it tried to make sense of how it had been overtaken, overshadowed, and dominated by the West. In a fascinating portrait of a culture in turmoil, Lewis shows how the Middle East turned its attention to understanding European weaponry, industry, government, education, and culture. He also describes how some Middle Easterners fastened blame on a series of scapegoats, while others asked not "Who did this to us?" but rather "Where did we go wrong?"

With a new Afterword that addresses September 11 and its aftermath, What Went Wrong? is an urgent, accessible book that no one who is concerned with contemporary affairs will want to miss."

Timbo

Turn on CNN right now, they are doing a "The 1960's" special, with a focus on the Viet Nam war.

contrails

I've been catching some of these because it's on when I go to the gym.

Pretty good series.