Addiction
12-25-2006, 12:59 AM
#21
Swearing at the FMA
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 902
Any way, people that base there complete happiness on how much is on there W-2 tend to not be the happiest. The trick is to find a balance. I sit here working in a prison, miserable every time I go to work. Even though I make easliy over 3x what a first year RJ driver makes, and I still get 15 days off a month. I cannot wait to make the transition to the flying life. My unhappines probably cost me my first marrige and if things don't change soon flying wise, it may just ruin another relationship. When I was younger my Dad worked for CO, his dream. That all came crashing down with Lorenzo, in about '84 I believe. He had a very succesful side business that made more then flying did at the time, so he just walked away (NO strike/no scab). His unhappiness cost him a marrige, and he and my mom split. He finnaly got back into flying after about a 5 year break, and I could tell even as a kid a light was relit in him. I am trying to learn from those mistakes when it comes to happiness and money.
The truth is, I understand what SkyHigh is trying to do. However he should also look at it from both sides. If he is happy in consturction then great, good for him. This issue is not just carreer specific, I have seen many many people go after a job because they love it, only to be unsuccessful at the attempt.
Take firemen for example. In Socal you generally have to pay for your own fire academy, paramedic schoool, and 4 year degree before you even come close to being considered. And to be compititive you probably had to work your ass off all summer long for several summers on a hand crew making almost nothing. And then once you do, there will be 2,000 guys/girls applying for the 5-10 jobs LA County has open for the year. Anyone else see something familiar about that. I know in varies in different states, but in places that have decent weather and quality of life it's about the same. You can't take a job as a firemen in Grand Forks and then commute from L.A., but you can take a job flying and live about where ever you want and can afford. Once you make it to the equvilent level of flying.
Hope everyone is happy and healthy this Christmas,
P R
(Sorry about any spelling/grammar errors)
The truth is, I understand what SkyHigh is trying to do. However he should also look at it from both sides. If he is happy in consturction then great, good for him. This issue is not just carreer specific, I have seen many many people go after a job because they love it, only to be unsuccessful at the attempt.
Take firemen for example. In Socal you generally have to pay for your own fire academy, paramedic schoool, and 4 year degree before you even come close to being considered. And to be compititive you probably had to work your ass off all summer long for several summers on a hand crew making almost nothing. And then once you do, there will be 2,000 guys/girls applying for the 5-10 jobs LA County has open for the year. Anyone else see something familiar about that. I know in varies in different states, but in places that have decent weather and quality of life it's about the same. You can't take a job as a firemen in Grand Forks and then commute from L.A., but you can take a job flying and live about where ever you want and can afford. Once you make it to the equvilent level of flying.
Hope everyone is happy and healthy this Christmas,
P R
(Sorry about any spelling/grammar errors)
Like AC/DC said, "It's a long way to the top..." Few out there have it easy. Do what you love, but don't make it the complete center of your life, and gut it out.
12-25-2006, 12:28 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 777
I so much appreciate hearing from young bright lovers of aviation that look at getting into this industry through realistic eyes. I can feel the desire through their writing and they know what is ahead both good and bad. Skyhigh throws water on their fire but they come back despite it. I know that many here who share their experiences and desires will in fact reach their goal of flying for a major airline or UPS or FedEx or whoever they desire to fly for. It is a challenging and emotional roller coaster at times but like many things in life, the really good things do require some sacrifice to attain. I can assure you that it was very worth it for me and despite that those of us here who have attained our dream may wear different uniforms or work in other countries, we are all connected to this strong brotherhood of which few outside our craft will ever understand. I look forward to sharing the cockpit with many who write here. As always, I am very willing to help out any of you here that have desire and commitment. I hope everybody had a very merry Christmas and I wish all of you a very productive and professionally rewarding 2007.
12-25-2006, 12:41 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
I so much appreciate hearing from young bright lovers of aviation that look at getting into this industry through realistic eyes. I can feel the desire through their writing and they know what is ahead both good and bad. Skyhigh throws water on their fire but they come back despite it. I know that many here who share their experiences and desires will in fact reach their goal of flying for a major airline or UPS or FedEx or whoever they desire to fly for. It is a challenging and emotional roller coaster at times but like many things in life, the really good things do require some sacrifice to attain. I can assure you that it was very worth it for me and despite that those of us here who have attained our dream may wear different uniforms or work in other countries, we are all connected to this strong brotherhood of which few outside our craft will ever understand. I look forward to sharing the cockpit with many who write here. As always, I am very willing to help out any of you here that have desire and commitment. I hope everybody had a very merry Christmas and I wish all of you a very productive and professionally rewarding 2007.
-LAFF
12-25-2006, 01:52 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 777
You're full of SH!T...I'd still buy you a beer and share the cockpit but you need to know where you stand with me. Merry X-mas...BTW - you sound like a senior officer on his walkthur of a new command / DV visit....Total BS except for the part about Skyhigh. Sky - get some help next year. Give Dr. Phil a call - maybe you can be on his show...
-LAFF
-LAFF
Last edited by calcapt; 12-25-2006 at 04:46 PM. Reason: spelling
12-25-2006, 04:37 PM
#25
Swearing at the FMA
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 902
I so much appreciate hearing from young bright lovers of aviation that look at getting into this industry through realistic eyes. I can feel the desire through their writing and they know what is ahead both good and bad. Skyhigh throws water on their fire but they come back despite it. I know that many here who share their experiences and desires will in fact reach their goal of flying for a major airline or UPS or FedEx or whoever they desire to fly for. It is a challenging and emotional roller coaster at times but like many things in life, the really good things do require some sacrifice to attain. I can assure you that it was very worth it for me and despite that those of us here who have attained our dream may wear different uniforms or work in other countries, we are all connected to this strong brotherhood of which few outside our craft will ever understand. I look forward to sharing the cockpit with many who write here. As always, I am very willing to help out any of you here that have desire and commitment. I hope everybody had a very merry Christmas and I wish all of you a very productive and professionally rewarding 2007.
12-25-2006, 05:56 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,151
You're full of SH!T...I'd still buy you a beer and share the cockpit but you need to know where you stand with me. Merry X-mas...BTW - you sound like a senior officer on his walkthur of a new command / DV visit....Total BS except for the part about Skyhigh. Sky - get some help next year. Give Dr. Phil a call - maybe you can be on his show...
-LAFF
-LAFF
LAFF - You're not sounding like yourself. Hope you're having a great holiday season. Mine is a bit stressful because I'm moving! I must need my head examined for moving between Christmas and New Years.
12-25-2006, 06:50 PM
#27
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Couldn't
Correction:
I have never said that one couldn't make it. The question is should one try? My message is to those who are evaluating aviation against other career options. I realise that many here are prepared to throw their lives away on the chance to sit in the flight deck. Some however are interested in earning a real living and having a real life and they need to know the facts.
The statistics I present are not made up. They come from the FAA's web site on pilot statistics and from Flight Training Magazine from when they would publish that information. I strongly advise anyone to look it up for themselves. Keep in mind that the FAA only counts pilots with active medicals. The FAA claims around 600,000 active pilots. There are perhaps millions more that gave up and let their medicals lapse and have dropped off the list. My estimate of 30,000 pilots who give up each year is under estimated. Colleges and Universities alone produce enough pilots to fill every opening in the regionals and majors two times over. Add to that the military and civilian pilots and you will begin to see what I am talking about.
A career in aviation is a difficult path that is littered with risk. The price of education, training and sacrifices made in the early years are far out of balance with the possible compensation. Even the most optimistic wouldn't argue that. The truth is that it takes more than it gives, commuting isn't easy or fun and most will never earn enough to justify the continuing price of staying there.
On the other hand some are either too blinded by their lust for the job and don't realize what they are loosing until it is too late or are total avdorks. Perhaps they belong there? People do occasionally make it to the majors and their stories of triumph spawn a thousand ill fated career attempts. It is similar to lottery winners. I am not alone in my plight. There are plenty of others who preach the same message if you cared to look and on this forum there are many many sad stories.
And lastly, the career has been in near free fall for the last 25 years. The future for airline pilots is not bright. Deny it all you wish but the evidence is clear.
This has been another quality public service message brought to you by,
SkyHigh
I have never said that one couldn't make it. The question is should one try? My message is to those who are evaluating aviation against other career options. I realise that many here are prepared to throw their lives away on the chance to sit in the flight deck. Some however are interested in earning a real living and having a real life and they need to know the facts.
The statistics I present are not made up. They come from the FAA's web site on pilot statistics and from Flight Training Magazine from when they would publish that information. I strongly advise anyone to look it up for themselves. Keep in mind that the FAA only counts pilots with active medicals. The FAA claims around 600,000 active pilots. There are perhaps millions more that gave up and let their medicals lapse and have dropped off the list. My estimate of 30,000 pilots who give up each year is under estimated. Colleges and Universities alone produce enough pilots to fill every opening in the regionals and majors two times over. Add to that the military and civilian pilots and you will begin to see what I am talking about.
A career in aviation is a difficult path that is littered with risk. The price of education, training and sacrifices made in the early years are far out of balance with the possible compensation. Even the most optimistic wouldn't argue that. The truth is that it takes more than it gives, commuting isn't easy or fun and most will never earn enough to justify the continuing price of staying there.
On the other hand some are either too blinded by their lust for the job and don't realize what they are loosing until it is too late or are total avdorks. Perhaps they belong there? People do occasionally make it to the majors and their stories of triumph spawn a thousand ill fated career attempts. It is similar to lottery winners. I am not alone in my plight. There are plenty of others who preach the same message if you cared to look and on this forum there are many many sad stories.
And lastly, the career has been in near free fall for the last 25 years. The future for airline pilots is not bright. Deny it all you wish but the evidence is clear.
This has been another quality public service message brought to you by,
SkyHigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 12-25-2006 at 06:57 PM.
12-25-2006, 07:15 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Correction:
I have never said that one couldn't make it. The question is should one try? My message is to those who are evaluating aviation against other career options. I realise that many here are prepared to throw their lives away on the chance to sit in the flight deck. Some however are interested in earning a real living and having a real life and they need to know the facts.
The statistics I present are not made up. They come from the FAA's web site on pilot statistics and from Flight Training Magazine from when they would publish that information. I strongly advise anyone to look it up for themselves. Keep in mind that the FAA only counts pilots with active medicals. The FAA claims around 600,000 active pilots. There are perhaps millions more that gave up and let their medicals lapse and have dropped off the list. My estimate of 30,000 pilots who give up each year is under estimated. Colleges and Universities alone produce enough pilots to fill every opening in the regionals and majors two times over. Add to that the military and civilian pilots and you will begin to see what I am talking about.
A career in aviation is a difficult path that is littered with risk. The price of education, training and sacrifices made in the early years are far out of balance with the possible compensation. Even the most optimistic wouldn't argue that. The truth is that it takes more than it gives, commuting isn't easy or fun and most will never earn enough to justify the continuing price of staying there.
On the other hand some are either too blinded by their lust for the job and don't realize what they are loosing until it is too late or are total avdorks. Perhaps they belong there? People do occasionally make it to the majors and their stories of triumph spawn a thousand ill fated career attempts. It is similar to lottery winners. I am not alone in my plight. There are plenty of others who preach the same message if you cared to look and on this forum there are many many sad stories.
And lastly, the career has been in near free fall for the last 25 years. The future for airline pilots is not bright. Deny it all you wish but the evidence is clear.
This has been another quality public service message brought to you by,
SkyHigh
I have never said that one couldn't make it. The question is should one try? My message is to those who are evaluating aviation against other career options. I realise that many here are prepared to throw their lives away on the chance to sit in the flight deck. Some however are interested in earning a real living and having a real life and they need to know the facts.
The statistics I present are not made up. They come from the FAA's web site on pilot statistics and from Flight Training Magazine from when they would publish that information. I strongly advise anyone to look it up for themselves. Keep in mind that the FAA only counts pilots with active medicals. The FAA claims around 600,000 active pilots. There are perhaps millions more that gave up and let their medicals lapse and have dropped off the list. My estimate of 30,000 pilots who give up each year is under estimated. Colleges and Universities alone produce enough pilots to fill every opening in the regionals and majors two times over. Add to that the military and civilian pilots and you will begin to see what I am talking about.
A career in aviation is a difficult path that is littered with risk. The price of education, training and sacrifices made in the early years are far out of balance with the possible compensation. Even the most optimistic wouldn't argue that. The truth is that it takes more than it gives, commuting isn't easy or fun and most will never earn enough to justify the continuing price of staying there.
On the other hand some are either too blinded by their lust for the job and don't realize what they are loosing until it is too late or are total avdorks. Perhaps they belong there? People do occasionally make it to the majors and their stories of triumph spawn a thousand ill fated career attempts. It is similar to lottery winners. I am not alone in my plight. There are plenty of others who preach the same message if you cared to look and on this forum there are many many sad stories.
And lastly, the career has been in near free fall for the last 25 years. The future for airline pilots is not bright. Deny it all you wish but the evidence is clear.
This has been another quality public service message brought to you by,
SkyHigh
You are miss using those statistics completely and seeminlg delibratly. Yes the FAA estimates that their are 600,000 active pilots, but there are far fewer pilots flying for hire, around fewer that are qualified to fly for hire. What you seem to be leaving out, is that a majority of people who get their Private Pilot Certificate are not planning to fly for hire, and do not continue on to advanced ratings, they are perfectly content with a Private Pilot Certificate.
That might explain why AOPA has many times more members than the Pilot Unions have.............combined. Further proving that your numbers may be right, but the interpretation of those numbers is wrong. Further your estimates are not based on any actual numbers, rather your clearly biased opinion. I respect what you are doing, trying to inform others about the downfalls, however that does not change the fact that your intrepretation of the numbers is off base, it would make a statistician cry.
Hope you had a Merry Christmas.
12-25-2006, 07:19 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 777
Sky:
Despite many reasons not to like you, I do. I have a feeling that we could spend hours together laughing, swapping war stories and generally BS-ing about life and then part as best friends. I guess it's the ying and yang of life that makes this an interesting world to live in. I wish you a happy new year my friend.
Despite many reasons not to like you, I do. I have a feeling that we could spend hours together laughing, swapping war stories and generally BS-ing about life and then part as best friends. I guess it's the ying and yang of life that makes this an interesting world to live in. I wish you a happy new year my friend.
12-25-2006, 07:26 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Sky:
Despite many reasons not to like you, I do. I have a feeling that we could spend hours together laughing, swapping war stories and generally BS-ing about life and then part as best friends. I guess it's the ying and yang of life that makes this an interesting world to live in. I wish you a happy new year my friend.
Despite many reasons not to like you, I do. I have a feeling that we could spend hours together laughing, swapping war stories and generally BS-ing about life and then part as best friends. I guess it's the ying and yang of life that makes this an interesting world to live in. I wish you a happy new year my friend.
He seems like a fine person, I just think at times he becomes a bit overzealous, and exaggerates at times to an extreme. Other than that he does provide a good counter-balance, and one that people should take into account when deciding on this career.
A Happy New Year to the both of you.
